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After Obama, a new hope?


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Disons que Sanders on a une petite idée de ce qu'il donne comme élu, et son bilan n'a pas l'air catastrophique.

Son programme c'est autre chose par contre.

 

Alors que Trump, sais pas pourquoi mais il me fait penser à un Berlusconi qui aurait encore moins de barrières.

Et Berlusconi est une de mes références avec Balkany pour dire que la démocratie cela peut-être du bullshit.

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 Leur lien, c'est surtout le discours anti-système. Comme dit avant.

 

 Mais putain... Une finale Trump/Sanders... Sans déconner où vont les States ??? Je préférerai encore voter Hollande...

Les States s'européanisent, c'tout, ils veulent copier un modèle de merde pour avoir les mêmes problèmes de merde.

 

Je préfère de loin Sanders a Trump

Comme tu y vas! Entre le cancer de l'anus et le cancer de la prostate, je préfère ne pas me prononcer.

Avec Sanders c'est 18.000 milliards de dollars de dépenses supplémentaires dans son programme.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511

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Si j'étais Ricain, et si j'etais du genre a voter :

-Je ne voudrais plus de la clique Obama/Clinton pour tout ce qu'on sait

-Je ne voudrais pas d'un taré stupide comme Trump

-Idem pour les protestants neocons extrémistes

Reste Sanders qui est un gros gauchiste qui tache mais qui n'a lui seul ne pourra pas tuer l économie US et qui sera peut être moins cinglé a l'international.

Un vote pragmatique.

  • Yea 1
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Les States s'européanisent, c'tout, ils veulent copier un modèle de merde pour avoir les mêmes problèmes de merde.

Comme tu y vas! Entre le cancer de l'anus et le cancer de la prostate, je préfère ne pas me prononcer.

Avec Sanders c'est 18.000 milliards de dollars de dépenses supplémentaires dans son programme.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511

La dette, ça peut se rembourser. Déclencher des guerres, ça coûte plus cher, ça fait plus de morts, ça écorne l'image des États-Unis. Entre Trump et Sanders, il n'y a même pas débat.

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Trump n'est pas le plus va t en guerre si? Comparé à Cruz?

Avec Trump le problème c'est qu'il est difficile de savoir ce qu'il fera vraiment une fois au pouvoir, là il trolley pour gagner mais ensuite? Rappelons qu'il était pro Clinton à une époque, la remarque sur le Congrès est valable pour lui aussi.

Cela dit en première approche il est sans doute pire que Sanders (mais si celui-ci plombe l'économie ça peut aussi déclencher des guerres à moyen terme).

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La dette, ça peut se rembourser. Déclencher des guerres, ça coûte plus cher, ça fait plus de morts, ça écorne l'image des États-Unis. Entre Trump et Sanders, il n'y a même pas débat.

Je doute qu'un jour les States remboursent leurs 17.000 milliards de dollars de dettes. Mais si en plus Sanders veut dépenser 18.000 milliards en plus, même en réduisant furieusement le budget de la défense, il sera obligé d'augmenter massivement les impôts et emprunter massivement. Ce type peut ruiner les US bien plus que Trump, par contre Trump est un très mauvais VRP pour l'image des Etats-unis c'est certain.

 

C'est quoi le programme de Sanders en matières libérales non économique ? (Drogue, libertés civiles, armes, propriété privée, surveillance,..

)

https://berniesanders.com/issues/money-in-politics/

AS PRESIDENT, I WILL:

Only appoint Supreme Court justices who will make it a priority to overturn Citizens United and who understand that corruption in politics means more than just quid pro quo.

Fight to pass a constitutional amendment making it clear that Congress and the states have the power to regulate money in elections. I have been a proud sponsor and leading champion of such an amendment in the Senate.

Fight for a publicly financed, transparent system of campaign financing that amplifies small donations, along the lines of the Fair Elections Now Act that I have been pleased to co-sponsor, and an effective public financing system for president.

Insist on complete transparency regarding the funding of campaigns, including through disclosure of contributions to outside spending groups, via legislation, action by the Securities and Exchange Commission, Federal Election Commission, and Federal Communication Commission, and an executive order requiring government contractors to disclose their political spending.

Fight to eliminate super PACs and other outside spending abuses.

Work to aggressively enforce campaign finance rules.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/a-fair-and-humane-immigration-policy/

Through legislation and executive action, Senator Sanders will implement a humane and secure immigration policy that will:

Dismantle inhumane deportation programs and detention centers;

Pave the way for a swift and fair legislative roadmap to citizenship for the eleven million undocumented immigrants;

Ensure our border remains secure while respecting local communities;

Regulate the future flow of immigrants by modernizing the visa system and rewriting bad trade agreements;

Enhance access to justice and reverse the criminalization of immigrants;

Establish parameters for independent oversight of key U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) agencies.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/climate-change/

Bernie’s comprehensive plan to combat climate change and make sure our planet is habitable and safe for our kids and grandkids will:

Cut U.S. carbon pollution by 40 percent by 2030 and by over 80 percent by 2050 by putting a tax on carbon pollution, repealing fossil fuel subsidies and making massive investments in energy efficiency and clean, sustainable energy such as wind and solar power.

Create a Clean-Energy Workforce of 10 million good-paying jobs by creating a 100% clean energy system. Transitioning toward a completely nuclear-free clean energy system for electricity, heating, and transportation is not only possible and affordable it will create millions of good jobs, clean up our air and water, and decrease our dependence on foreign oil.

Return billions of dollars to consumers impacted by the transformation of our energy system and protect the most vulnerable communities in the country suffering the ravages of climate change. Bernie will tax polluters causing the climate crisis, and return billions of dollars to working families to ensure the fossil fuel companies don’t subject us to unfair rate hikes. Bernie knows that climate change will not affect everyone equally – disenfranchised minority communities and the working poor will be hardest hit. The carbon tax will also protect those most impacted by the transformation of our energy system and protect the most vulnerable communities in the country suffering the ravages of climate change.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

We must demilitarize our police forces so they don’t look and act like invading armies.

We must invest in community policing. Only when we get officers into the communities, working within neighborhoods before trouble arises, do we develop the relationships necessary to make our communities safer together. Among other things, that means increasing civilian oversight of police departments.

We must create a police culture that allows for good officers to report the actions of bad officers without fear of retaliation and allows for a department to follow through on such reports.

We need police forces that reflect the diversity of our communities, including in the training academies and leadership.

At the federal level, we need to establish a new model police training program that reorients the way we do law enforcement in this country. With input from a broad segment of the community including activists and leaders from civil rights organizations we will reinvent how we police America.

We need to federally fund and require body cameras for law enforcement officers to make it easier to hold them accountable.

We need to require police departments and states to collect data on all police shootings and deaths that take place while in police custody and make that data public.

We need new rules on the allowable use of force. Police officers need to be trained to de-escalate confrontations and to humanely interact with people who have mental illnesses.

States and localities that make progress in this area should get more federal justice grant money. Those that do not should get their funding slashed.

We need to make sure federal resources are there to crack down on the illegal activities of hate groups.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/fighting-for-lgbt-equality/

As President, Sen. Sanders will:

Sign into law the Equality Act, the Every Child Deserves a Family Act, and any other bill that prohibits discrimination against LGBT people.

Work with HHS to ensure LGBT Americans have access to comprehensive health insurance which provides appropriate coverage and do not have to fear discrimination or mistreatment from providers.

Continue the great work of the State Department’s Special Envoy for LGBT Rights and ensure the United States helps protect the rights of LGBT people around the world.

Advance policies to ensure students can attend school without fear of bullying, and work to reduce suicides.

Require police departments to adopt policies to ensure fairer interactions with transgender people, especially transgender women of color who are often targeted by police unfairly, and institute training programs to promote compliance with fair policies.

Bar discrimination against LGBT people by creditors and banks so that people will not be unfairly denied mortgages, credit cards, or student loans.

Veto any legislation that purports to “protect” religious liberty at the expense of others’ rights.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/reforming-wall-street/

Introduced the “Too Big to Fail, Too Big to Exist Act,” which would break up the big banks and prohibit any too-big-to-fail institutions from accessing the Federal Reserve’s discount facilities or using insured deposits for risky activities.

Led the fight in 1999 defending Glass-Steagall provisions which prevented banks (especially “too big to fail” ones) from gambling with customers’ money, and currently is a co-sponsor of the Elizabeth Warren/John McCain bill to reinstate those provisions.

Has proposed a financial transaction tax which will reduce risky and unproductive high-speed trading and other forms of Wall Street speculation; proceeds would be used to provide debt-free public college education.

Is co-sponsoring Sen. Tammy Baldwin’s bill to end Wall Street’s practice of paying big bonuses to bank executives who take senior-level government jobs.

Introduced a tax on Wall Street speculation to make public colleges and universities tuition-free

Supports capping credit card interest rates at 15%.

Sponsored an amendment calling for an audit the Federal Reserve. The audit found that far more had been spent in the Wall Street bailout than previously disclosed, and that considerable funds had been spent to bail out foreign corporations.

Warned about the risks of deregulation eight years before the fiscal crisis of 2008.

Has proposed limiting the ability of bankers to get rich from taxpayer bailouts of their institutions

https://berniesanders.com/issues/war-and-peace/

Move away from a policy of unilateral military action, and toward a policy of emphasizing diplomacy, and ensuring the decision to go to war is a last resort.

Ensure that any military action we do engage in has clear goals, is limited in scope, and whenever possible provides support to our allies in the region.

Close Guantanamo Bay, rein in the National Security Agency, abolish the use of torture, and remember what truly makes America exceptional: our values.

Expand our global influence by promoting fair trade, addressing global climate change, providing humanitarian relief and economic assistance, defending the rule of law, and promoting human rights.

Y'a du bon et du pas bon du tout sur ces questions.

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Sanders c'est Mélenchon. La seule différence entre les deux c'est que les USA ne se sont pas aussi vautrés dans le socialisme que la France. Mais sinon c'est le même genre d'anti-systeme et globalement les mêmes idées. Y a rien de pragmatique à voter pour lui.

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Sanders c'est Mélenchon. La seule différence entre les deux c'est que les USA ne se sont pas aussi vautrés dans le socialisme que la France. Mais sinon c'est le même genre d'anti-systeme et globalement les mêmes idées. Y a rien de pragmatique à voter pour lui.

 

 Tut tut tut, Sanders n'est pas pour une immigration plus "libre" https://www.contrepoints.org/2015/08/01/216206-etats-unis-un-gauchiste-finalement-tres-a-droite

 

 D'ailleurs, je suis sûr que nos petits nazillons français préfèrent Sanders à Trump.

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 Tut tut tut, Sanders n'est pas pour une immigration plus "libre" https://www.contrepoints.org/2015/08/01/216206-etats-unis-un-gauchiste-finalement-tres-a-droite

 

 D'ailleurs, je suis sûr que nos petits nazillons français préfèrent Sanders à Trump.

Oui. Extrait de son programme

hrough legislation and executive action, Senator Sanders will implement a humane and secure immigration policy that will:

Dismantle inhumane deportation programs and detention centers;

Pave the way for a swift and fair legislative roadmap to citizenship for the eleven million undocumented immigrants;

Ensure our border remains secure while respecting local communities;

Regulate the future flow of immigrants by modernizing the visa system and rewriting bad trade agreements;

Enhance access to justice and reverse the criminalization of immigrants;

Establish parameters for independent oversight of key U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) agencies.

 

En gros il veut régulariser les immigrés clandestins actuels pas à pas, mais renforcer les frontières.

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Pas oublier qu'1/4 des votes pour la désignation démocrates sont des caciques du parti et ne sont pas issu des primaires et ils sont quasiment tous pro Clinton.

Pour que Sanders passe, faudrait plus qu'une victoire mais un raz de marée.

 

On disait un peu le même genre de trucs sur Obama il y a 8 ans

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My two cents : Sanders a quand même plus de chances de rassembler un congrès démocrate qui irait dans son sens que Trump un congrès républicain.

 

Sans même aller jusque-là, si Trump arrive à la convention républicaine avec une majorité de délégués, je ne pense même pas qu'il soit investi sans implosion avec candidat dissident.

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De toutes façons le gros du pouvoir se fait au Congrès. Bernie élu aura tout le mal du monde à mettre les Démocrates en ordre de bataille pour ses délires économiques. Si il est élu.

Tu me diras, c'est aussi valable pour Cruz : tout le monde le déteste. Du coup, quatre ans d'immobilisme, ça se tente. ;)
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Sans même aller jusque-là, si Trump arrive à la convention républicaine avec une majorité de délégués, je ne pense même pas qu'il soit investi sans implosion avec candidat dissident.

Si les républicains refusent de le porter comme leur candidat, Trump se présentera en solo. 

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