Turkey in the throes of Islamic revolution?

[Ash]

Tu me fais un procès d'intention totalement hors de propos et éloigné de la vérité. Et me sors pas le: "oui je vois au travers des lignes, je sais qui tu es etc..", c'est assez pathétique.

Le pathétique ça fait déjà deux fois, faut se renouveler. Et l'utiliser dans son sens originel.

Je ne défends que le droit naturel et je tente de le découvrir tous les jours rien d'autre, par conséquent je suis anti-état donc en étant logique je ne vois pas où je transpire le socialisme .

J'ai bien compris que cette idée fixe ne souffre d'aucune nuance, ni remise en question. C'est seulement que très commode comme réflexion intellectuelle.

[Saucer]

C'est seulement que très commode comme réflexion intellectuelle.

Le Non-Penseur de Rodine (ma voisine) :

[Rincevent]

Vous ne savez même pas me définir,

Si, mais la charte tout autant que la plus élémentaire politesse nous interdisent d'en dire davantage.

[Sekonda]

Tout le monde se calme et on reprend un ton adapté à une discussion entre gens raisonnables.

[free jazz]

Exiterait-il un lien entre le coup d'Etat juridique en cours mené par l'établissement kémaliste et les attentats sanglants d'Istanbul, qui ont tué 18 personnes et en ont blessé 150 autres dimanche dernier?

Notons que l'AKP a conduit une politique d'ouverture économique et politique pro-européenne, contre laquelle s'opposent violemment les ultra-nationalistes kémalistes.

Qui cherche à destabiliser le gouvernement? La Turquie, nouveau tigre économique de l'Euro-méditerranée, est-elle menacée par un risque de guerre civile?

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/eur…uie_540903.html

[Taranne]

Turkish society on trial

Two major court cases in Turkey this week hold the keys to the future of democracy and the rule of law in the country

Stephen Kinzer

As my plane landed in Istanbul on Sunday, two bombs were exploding on a busy shopping street, killing 17 people and injuring more than 100. It was just as shocking an event as it would have been anywhere. Even this tragedy, though, was able to grab Turks' attention only momentarily. They are deeply fixated on two epic court cases that will shape the future of their country.

Rarely do judges hold the fate of a nation so fully in their hands. In these two cases, they can either decisively consolidate Turkish democracy or fundamentally weaken it. Their verdicts will also shape Turkey's role in the world for years to come, and thus reverberate far beyond Turkey's borders.

The first of the two cases, which the constitutional court began hearing on Monday, seeks something unprecedented in the modern history of democracies: the closure of the ruling party and the banning from politics of dozens of its leaders, including Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and President Abdullah Gul. Prosecutors allege that the party and its leaders are treasonously leading Turkey away from its secular principles and toward Islamic rule.

Behind this case is a historic clash between the old ruling elite, which is supported and often guided by military commanders, and a rising Turkish middle class from the Anatolian heartland. This class takes religious belief more seriously than the generals would like, and Erdogan has catered to it, in part by seeking to lift the ban on headscarves at public universities.

The old elite evidently harbours the fantasy that by banning the Justice and Development party, it can wipe away the social reality that brought it to power. Doing so, however, would be a profound setback for Turkish democracy. Newspapers are full of anguished columns listing its likely consequences.

Banning the ruling party and its leaders would radicalise many devout Turks, frighten away foreign investors who are attracted to Turkey because of its political stability, undermine the country's growing and highly positive role in the Middle East, wipe away whatever chance it has of moving toward membership in the European Union, cripple promising efforts to resolve longstanding disputes with Cyprus and Armenia and send Muslims around the world the inflammatory message that democracy is Islam's enemy.

The constitutional court is heavily influenced by the military and has an abysmally anti-democratic record. Nonetheless, as the chorus of warnings has grown steadily louder, pundits who believed a few months ago that the ruling party's closure was inevitable now say the odds are closer to 50-50. Reason may yet prevail.

The other court case that has riveted Turkey's attention is based on a blood-curdling 2,455-page indictment that was made public last week. It names 86 prominent Turks, including journalists, political activists and retired military officers, as members of a clandestine terror gang that has carried out murders and a host of other violent acts, including recent ones that were evidently aimed at overthrowing Erdogan. The gang is said to have been responsible for the most stunning assassinations in modern Turkish history, among them the killings of the secular journalist Ugur Mumcu in 1993, the business tycoon Ozdemir Sabanci in 1996 and a senior judge in 2006. All of these attacks were staged to look as if they were carried out by Islamic or far-left fanatics.

The terror gang called itself Ergenekon, after a mythic valley from which Turkic peoples are said to have emerged in ancient times. Turks know it by another name: "deep state". It is a shadowy web of powerful people, closely tied to security forces, whose political tool is horrific violence.

The authorities vowed to crush deep state in 1996 after a spectacular car crash led to the discovery that senior police commanders were collaborating with gangsters. They did so again in 2005, when witnesses managed to capture a bomber in the town of Semdinli and he turned out to be closely tied to the army. Both times, deep state fended off investigations for which the public clamoured. Never until now, however, have the actions of this network been so minutely detailed in a legal indictment. That has led some Turks to hope that this time, the killer gang will finally be dealt a serious blow.

A court decision allowing the Justice and Development party to remain legal would be a welcome signal that in Turkey, as in any democracy, voters hold ultimate power. Convictions in the Ergenekon case could wipe away the most serious threat to the country's stability. Together, these two verdicts would do nearly as much to strengthen Turkish democracy as deep state has done to subvert it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20…29/turkey.islam

[Blondie]

Erdoğan n'est pas mon héros, et je vous rassure : je vomis SOS racisme autant que je vous vomis vous, et sans aucun doute pour des raisons similaires. Car derrière chaque islamophobe qui rit, il y a un laïcard qui ricane.

Ash > J'ai bien dit "certains", c'est à dire certainement pas la majorité - moi aussi je connais des kurdes qui sont tout sauf des intégristes (en fait c'est amusant, je connais un certain nombre de filles et de femmes originaires de Turquie, *aucune* ne se voile).

Merci pour le vomi. Je me demande avec quel tolerance les modos acceptent que vous en metiez partout dans toutes les files ou vous passez.

J'en ai le coeur haut et rien a vous dire.

[Ash]

Merci pour le vomi. Je me demande avec quel tolerance les modos acceptent que vous en metiez partout dans toutes les files ou vous passez.

Parce qu'il a le sens de la formule

Hormis cela, et comme c'est étonnant, les faits récents ne donnent pas raison à la théorie de la Turquie Islamiste. Blondie ?

[Blondie]

Parce qu'il a le sens de la formule

Hormis cela, et comme c'est étonnant, les faits récents ne donnent pas raison à la théorie de la Turquie Islamiste. Blondie ?

Turquie islamiste ? Ou as tu vu ca ? Je disais seulement que Erdogan tente une pathetique reintroduction "d'islamité" dans son pays. A mon sens, il n'est pour pas grande chose dans la relative bonne santé economique de la Turquie, encore trop de protectionnisme, barrieres administratives, de bakchich … La prochaine epreuve sera la stagnation/recession europeenne, on fera si la turquie tient le coup.

[Ash]

Turquie islamiste ? Ou as tu vu ca ? Je disais seulement que Erdogan tente une pathetique reintroduction "d'islamité" dans son pays.

Tiens, un nouveau mot.

A mon sens, il n'est pour pas grande chose dans la relative bonne santé economique de la Turquie, encore trop de protectionnisme, barrieres administratives, de bakchich … La prochaine epreuve sera la stagnation/recession europeenne, on fera si la turquie tient le coup.

A qui doit-on cette bonne santé économique dans ce cas ?

[Taranne]

Turkish court rules against banning governing party

* Elizabeth Stewart and agencies

* guardian.co.uk,

* Wednesday July 30 2008

* Article history

A Turkish woman walks in front of a giant poster of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan as Turkey's constitutional court decided whether to ban his governing party

A Turkish woman walks in front of a giant poster of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan as Turkey's constitutional court decided whether to ban his governing party. Photographer: Saygin Serdaroglu/ AFP

Turkey's constitutional court judges have ruled - by a narrow margin - against banning the governing party, which stood accused of undermining the country's secular principles.

At least seven of the 11 court judges were needed to vote in favour of the ban for it to be approved. Six judges voted for it, five rejected it.

The constitutional court, however, delivered a warning to the governing Justice and Development party (AKP) and said it would be deprived of half of its funding from the state treasury.

It is hoped the verdict will ease months of political uncertainty which saw a series of clashes between the ruling Islamic party of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Turkey's secular elite, which has the backing of its judiciary and powerful military.

The rift between Turkey's Muslims and the secular establishment has increased over the last century since national founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk imposed a pro-western, strictly secular system amid the ruins of the Ottoman empire.

The governing party's attempt to reverse a ban on women in public office wearing the Islamic headscarf, in particular, was seen by secularists as a move towards more radical Islamic policies.

In March, Turkey's chief prosecutor, Abdurrahman Yalcinkaya, asked the constitutional court to disband Erdogan's party and bar him and 70 other party members from joining a political party for five years.

The ruling party, which won the elections last year by a landslide, has repeatedly denied accusations that it is seeking to create an Islamic state via the back door.

Although prominent party leaders have backgrounds in political Islam, they have cited the EU-backed reforms they have implemented as proof that they are not pursuing an Islamic agenda.

A decision to ban the party would have triggered an escalation in political turmoil in the Nato member state, where bomb blasts killed 17 people in a residential area of Istanbul on Sunday.

The timing of the attack — on the eve of the Constitutional Court's deliberations — raised questions about a possible link.

Prosecutors are currently preparing a case against the alleged coup-plotters, including retired army officers, who stand accused of trying to bring down the Islamic-oriented government by fomenting chaos.

Since the 1960s, more than 20 parties - mostly pro-Islamist or pro-Kurdish - have been banned by the courts for allegedly posing a threat to Turkey's secularist principles.

However, this is the first time that an attempt has been made to ban a governing party with a huge parliamentary majority.

[Legion]

Ouf !

[Taranne]

Ouf !

Il y en a qui ne sont pas soulagés, bien au contraire:

Road to nowhere

From Turkey to Germany to the States, religious people are intent on taking us back to the middle ages

All comments ()

* AC Grayling

*

o AC Grayling

o guardian.co.uk,

o Tuesday July 29 2008

o Article history

I enjoyed the subtlety of the Guardian's page 13 layout yesterday. It was the first page of the international section, and it contained two stories, the first about legal moves in Turkey's constitutional court to disband the country's ruling AKP party on the grounds that it is threatening Turkey's secularist constitution, the second about complaints by Polish holidaymakers who find the nudity on German "free body culture" beaches disgusting.

To the alert eye the connection is direct. Admirers of the Catholic culture of Poland will assuredly be delighted by its success in making the unclothed human frame an object of disgust. Admirers of Islamic culture will be delighted to find that Turkish Islamists are encouraging more women to hide that automatic trigger of unbridled male lust, the tresses on the female head.

These are tips of icebergs. In fact the influence of religious attitudes in distorting and limiting aspects of human life, even to the extent of perverting, imprisoning and poisoning them at the extremes, is too well known to require rehearsal. It was against the domination of life by religion that Mustapha Kemal Atatürk acted, founding a secular republic which sought to move religion from "the realm of the state to the realm of belief" – which is how Turkey's current deputy prosecutor, Omer Faruk Eminagaoglu, puts it in explaining the basis of the case against the AKP, which has – even by the admission of some of its own MPs – been conducting a non-too-subtle yet hypocritically disavowed campaign of re-Islamicisation.

The worshippers of Brian's sandal everywhere are tireless and persistent in their efforts to recapture the world for dogma. In America the creationists and so-called "intelligent design" votaries expend vast sums and energy on trying to drag us back into medieval times. Islamists have never left them – except of course in freely using today's technology to further their aims. Cherry-pickers all, the Brian-sandalistas want it all: they want the rest of us to think and act as they prescribe, and to make us do it by the means that infidel thinking has produced: for example, religious freakery is all over the internet like a rash.

If the Brian-sandalistas cannot succeed by direct assault, they will do it by constant nibbling and encroachments: prayers in American publicly-funded schools, headscarves in Turkish publicly-funded universities, a little bit of anti-evolutionary biology there, a little alcohol ban there – and if that doesn't work, they try more robust means. So it goes: creep creep, whisper, soothe, murmur a prayer with the kids in assembly, ecumenicalise, interfaith-schmooze, infiltrate, subvert, complain, campaign, scream, threaten, explode.

The asymmetry is stark. Secularists say, "believe whatever nonsense you want, but keep it to yourself and act responsibly". The Brian-sandalistas say, "believe what we want you to believe and act as we say". The psychopaths among them say, "believe what we want you to believe and act as we say or we will kill you". Meanwhile the residue of attitudes and practices once foisted on everyone by the zealous still dog and bedevil us, as witness the poor benighted Catholic Poles suffering at the sight of what - you have to larf - they presumably believe God created.

There is nothing trivial about the problem in Turkey; and the problem in Turkey is the problem for the world at large. It is about boundaries, about the place of religious belief in the public domain, its effects on individual lives, and its effect on public policy. The history of "the west" is in essence a history of secularisation, and most even of those who decry what they see as its imperfections would not willingly be without the huge advances it has wrought in scientific, social and political respects. Think: if the clocks could be turned back as the Brians want, the English would be ruled by two people: The Queen and Rowan Williams.

You might be tempted to think that would be an improvement on Gordon Brown and Ed Balls, and preferable to Cameron and his friends from his house at Eton. But what if, say, Hizb ut-Tahrir got its way – it wants the Caliphate back, and by the logic of its outlook, a worldwide one. The ambition of the faiths – once they have finished warring with us and each other – is, remember, infinite by definition: and even one mile in the direction of any of their various paradises-on-earth would be a hell for all but those running the journey.

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This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Tuesday July 29 2008. It was last updated at 12:00 on July 29 2008.

[Legion]

Encore un athée congénital et parano.

[free jazz]

Exiterait-il un lien entre le coup d'Etat juridique en cours mené par l'établissement kémaliste et les attentats sanglants d'Istanbul, qui ont tué 18 personnes et en ont blessé 150 autres dimanche dernier?

Notons que l'AKP a conduit une politique d'ouverture économique et politique pro-européenne, contre laquelle s'opposent violemment les ultra-nationalistes kémalistes.

Qui cherche à destabiliser le gouvernement? La Turquie, nouveau tigre économique de l'Euro-méditerranée, est-elle menacée par un risque de guerre civile?

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/eur…uie_540903.html

Les soupçons semblent se confirmer : un vaste complot (un vrai pour une fois) impliquant l'établissement kémaliste, l'armée, la mafia et des notables, est en passe d'être démantelé dans un procès où les révélations se succèdent. Un coup d'Etat possiblement préparé par "l'Etat profond" contre le parti conservateur au pouvoir :

En Turquie, le procès du gang "Ergenekon" s'ouvre dans une atmosphère électrique

L'affaire Ergenekon a éclaté en 2007, avec la découverte d'un stock d'armes et d'explosifs à Istanbul et l'arrestation d'anciens militaires. Le procureur fait le lien avec l'attaque du Conseil d'Etat en 2006, au cours de laquelle un juge avait été abattu par un avocat prétendument islamiste. La Turquie voit alors resurgir "l'Etat profond", avec l'espoir, cette fois, qu'il disparaisse.

Ce groupe militaro-mafieux qui agit dans l'ombre de l'Etat depuis une trentaine d'années a été impliqué dans la lutte anticommuniste menée de front dans les pays de l'Otan. Reconverti dans la contre-guérilla, il s'est rendu coupable de nombreuses exactions dans le Sud-Est, à majorité kurde. Plusieurs assassinats inexpliqués d'intellectuels ou de responsables politiques portent sa marque, selon l'enquête du journaliste Can Dündar sur "l'avant Ergenekon".

(…)

La procédure, trop lourde, pourrait aussi diluer les responsabilités. Et échouer dans sa tentative de démanteler l'organisation. Quel rôle a joué Dogu Perinçek, leader du parti des travailleurs, connu pour ses diatribes négationnistes contre le génocide arménien ? Beaucoup redoutent que les cerveaux militaires du gang n'échappent à cette "opération mains propres" à la turque.

(…)

Le procès doit déterminer si les inculpés, parmi lesquels figurent des avocats, des journalistes et des anciens généraux nationalistes, ont tenté d'organiser un coup d'Etat contre le gouvernement de Recep Tayyip Erdogan. L'acte d'accusation compte plus de 2 500 pages.

http://www.lemonde.fr/international/articl…09233_3210.html

L’affaire Ergenekon : une justice impossible ?

par Marina Mielczarek

Article publié le 20/10/2008 Dernière mise à jour le 21/10/2008

Le procès du réseau Ergenekon, cellule clandestine accusée de tentative de coup d’Etat, s’est ouvert lundi près d’Istanbul. Les audiences prévues à la prison de Silivri à (à 50 km d’Istanbul) se sont ouvertes dans un climat de contestation et ont été marquées par de sérieux problèmes d’organisation.

2 455 pages d’acte d’accusation et des dizaines de meurtres

(…)

Ce n’est pas clairement dit, mais derrière l’affaire Ergenekon se cache le procès de l’ultranationalisme. Il suffit de constater l’origine du nom de cette cellule clandestine où se mêlent réseaux mafieux, politiques, militaires et nationalistes. Ergenekon, aujourd’hui ville morte au nord de l’Irak, est encore considérée comme le berceau mythique du peuple turc.

L’affaire Ergenekon a commencé en juin 2007 avec la découverte d’une cache d’armes dans un faubourg stambouliote.

Un numéro d’équilibriste pour la justice

En Turquie comme à l’étranger, les observateurs ont déjà averti : difficile d’y voir clair dans le réseau Ergenekon. La cour aura fort à faire pour évaluer les niveaux de responsabilité, démanteler la hiérarchie et surtout éviter les règlements de compte entre prévenus.

En effet, parmi les 86 accusés figurent des personnalités aux intérêts à première vue opposés. Face aux nationalistes et aux mafieux, on trouve un général à la retraite qui a révélé les liens entre la mafia et l’armée. L’avocat d’extrême droite Kemal Kerinçsinz se trouve aussi sur la liste, réputé pour sa traque des intellectuels parlant du « génocide arménien ».

Les 86 personnalités sont jugées pour « incitation à l’insurrection armée ; appartenance à une organisation terroriste ou encouragement à organiser un coup d’Etat pour renverser le Parti AKP actuellement au gouvernement (le Parti de la justice et du développement) ».

Selon l’acte d’accusation, Ergenekon aurait perpétré l’assassinat d’un juge du Conseil d’Etat en 2006 et prévoyait de liquider de nombreux acteurs de la vie publique. Les plus connus étant le Premier ministre Recep Tayyip Erdogan ou l’écrivain Orhan Pamuk, Prix Nobel de littérature l’année dernière.

Pourquoi un tel succès auprès du public ?

La télévision, les médias en général se sont empressés lundi matin dans la salle d’audience et aux abords de la prison. La tâche est ardue tant ce procès illustre l’« état profond » qui sévit en Turquie, ce dont tout le monde parle et soupçonne dans le pays, sans pour autant connaître la part des tractations et des marchés conclus entre les diverses parties. Une sorte de nébuleuse souterraine, faite d’Etats dans l’Etat (l’armée, les ultranationalistes et les trafiquants d’armes).

En tous cas, pour la presse turque le but du réseau Ergenekon était d’instaurer un climat de chaos, de provoquer une intervention de l’armée turque connue pour ses quatre coups d’Etat dans le passé, et réputée pour ses actuelles velléités. L’an passé, lors des défilés contre le projet de loi sur le voile à l’université, l’armée avait menacé le gouvernement AKP d’intervenir pour défendre la laïcité.

A la lecture des éditoriaux, lundi, la question mérite d’être posée : comment différencier arrestations arbitraires d’une défense légitime de la sécurité publique ?

Comme le spécifie la manchette du journal Hurriyet, « Soit la justice met au jour un large complot et abat le fonctionnement de l’Etat profond, soit le procès dure des années sans résultat concret au risque de provoquer une grande frustration ».

http://www.rfi.fr/actufr/articles/106/article_73761.asp

[Nick de Cusa]

Encore un athée congénital et parano.

Ah, c'est une race? A éliminer, alors.

[Legion]

Ah, c'est une race? A éliminer, alors.

Non sequitur.

[Hakill]

"un foyer d'activités anti-laïques"

La justice turque vise l'antisécularisme d'Erdogan

ANKARA (Reuters) - La Cour constitutionnelle de Turquie a déclaré que le Premier ministre, Tayyip Erdogan, et d'autres membres influents du parti AKP avaient été impliqués dans des activités anti-laïques.

La plus haute instance judiciaire du pays nomme également le ministre de l'Education, Huseyin Celik, dans les attendus de son arrêt rendu en juillet dernier par lequel elle avait décidé de ne pas interdire l'AKP mais de lui infliger une amende pour entrave aux principes laïcs de la Turquie.

"Il doit être accepté que ce parti est devenu un foyer d'activités anti-laïques du fait de ses initiatives visant à changer certains articles de la constitution turque", déclare la cour dans ses attendus.

La Cour constitutionnelle se réfère à l'amendement levant l'interdit frappant le port du voile islamique dans les universités - décision qu'elle avait invalidée au mois de juin.

La publication de ces attendus, étonnamment durs contre Erdogan, qui reste le responsable politique le plus populaire du pays, devrait raviver les tensions en Turquie.

Depuis son arrivée au pouvoir, en 2002, l'AKP, dont les racines plongent dans l'islam politique, est engagé dans un bras de fer avec les piliers de la laïcité turque, dont l'armée et la magistrature.

Pour le camp laïque, le parti d'Erdogan tente de réintroduire la religion dans la sphère publique au mépris de la constitution du pays.

http://actualite.portail.free.fr//monde/24…isme-d-erdogan/

[Nick de Cusa]

Les travestis musulmans pieux et voilés protestent contre l'interdiction du voile dans les universités.

Transvestites in Turkey

Gender-benders

Nov 6th 2008 | ISTANBUL

From The Economist print edition

Transvestites test the limits of Turkey’s tolerance

IN A cramped makeshift theatre in Istanbul, a Kurd in a purple dress titillates the audience with the story of how he was born a man but found he was a woman. During his act, Esmeray wields a sharp tongue to expose the systematic violence faced by fellow transvestites. “I am a Kurd, a transvestite and a feminist, so I am screwed all round,” he says.

Amberin Zaman Esmeray in the purple

Human-rights groups say hundreds of transvestites are detained, beaten, tortured or sexually abused every year. Many are driven into prostitution. “They are seen as the lowest of the low and face more police brutality than any other group,” says Eren Keskin, a human-rights lawyer. And when anyone has dared to file a complaint, she adds, “not a single policeman has been convicted.”

Turkey is said to have more transvestites per head than anywhere bar Brazil. Fascination with cross-dressing dates to Ottoman times, when winsome boys dressed as girls would belly-dance for the sultan. But, just as tolerance of Christians and Kurds withered under Ataturk’s republic, so it did for transvestites and gays. The success of a few transvestite singers disguises the “general acceptance in Turkish society that we are freaks,” says Funda, a transvestite dancer.

Same-sex relations are not banned in Turkey. But like America, it bans gays and cross-dressing men from the army. Yet to win exemption from mandatory military service, they must prove their sexual orientation. A Human Rights Watch report notes that this can involve “abusive and intrusive anal examinations”, and adds that many are forced into psychiatric treatment because they are deemed to be mentally ill.

Such abuses have drawn rebukes from the European Union. Emboldened by EU-inspired reforms, gays are starting to speak up. In June Istanbul hosted the country’s biggest gay pride parade, with hundreds of unfazed riot police looking on. The parade featured veiled transvestites protesting against the ban on Islamic-style headscarves at universities. A vocal band of pious women is now fighting discrimination against cross-dressing compatriots. This alliance is just one example of Turkey’s unusual mix of Islam and democracy.

The government is not so liberal. The interior ministry is said to be behind efforts to disband Lambda, an advocacy outfit, because it is sowing immoral values. An Istanbul court has ruled against Lambda, which is now appealing. And Esmeray is battling against two policemen who allegedly punched and kicked him as he was walking home in June 2007. The men are to appear in court next March on charges of causing him bodily harm. “Justice is slow, but it will come,” he vows.

[E.T. bleu]

Les travestis musulmans pieux et voilés protestent contre l'interdiction du voile dans les universités.

La rudesse des moeurs turques chez nous ils ont une plume