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Posté
Merci, je sais, mais c'était afin de ne pas créer de malentendu (du genre: "quoi, comment ça, désocialiser c'est mal ? Il ne faut donc pas sortir du socialisme ?") vu que les procès d'intention pleuvent actuellement. J'ai préféré forger alors l'expression à partir de "sociabilité".

:icon_up:

bien essayé, gros malin !

Posté
Tatcher n'a pu faire passer ses réformes que grâce à la guerre de malouine qui, comme toutes les guerres gagnées, lui a permis de souder le peuple derrière son chef. Il n'y aurait pas eu cette guerre, elle aurait été defenestrée par le parti conservateur qui se demandait comment il avait pu faire élire cette folle.

Voilà donc ce qu'attend désespérément Sarkozy pour réformer la France en profondeur: une bonne petite guerre ! :icon_up:

La domination étatique repose sur un ensemble symbolique, très dur à attaquer, et sur une réalité matérielle qui est aujourd'hui son point faible. Le pouvoir de l'Etat, sa capacité à agir, est concentrée dans ses dossiers. Mettez un virus informatiques particulièrement méchant sur le serveur de la sécurité sociale et c'en est fini de l'assistanat en France.

Tant qu'à faire, je crois que le plastiquage de Bercy serait plus radicalement efficace :doigt:

Je crois que tu as du temps libre désormais. Si tu veux, je peux te mettre ne contact avec un type très compétent qui rêve de monter un lycée d'excellence 100% privé en Belgique.

Moi, je veux bien m'occuper d'enseigner aux enfants de libéraux et de libertariens. Horaires plutôt libres, par contre ce sera à Maurepas dans les Yvelines. Si ça intéresse quelqu'un…

Posté
Ce n'est pas une mauvaise idée, mais le revers de la médaille est une possible désociabilisation.

+1

pour ma part j'ai fermement l'intention d' "home-schooler" mes enfants ( avec des précepteurs ) dans un futur nebuleux, mais je crains de trop les isoler en pratiquant ainsi… l'école c'est aussi apprendre à être confronté aux autres.

Posté
Mettez un virus informatiques particulièrement méchant sur le serveur de la sécurité sociale et c'en est fini de l'assistanat en France.

Sauf que la SS ça doit être 90% paperasse et 10% informatique :icon_up:.

Et même si les étatistes sont idiots, ils font des sauvegardes.

De toute façon la solution n'est pas de convaincre tout le monde. C'est d'arriver à agir en étant laissé tranquille, et de convaincre par l'exemple.

Posté
Si tu retrouves l'article de The Economist
Learning round the kitchen table

Jun 4th 1998 | CHICAGO

From The Economist print edition

Americans in record numbers are removing their children from public schools to educate them at home

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EDUCATION has always been a local issue in America. Now an increasing number of parents are choosing to make it even more local: they are doing it themselves. The number of Americans teaching their own children has more than tripled since the beginning of the decade. Home-schooling groups put the number of students learning at home at 1.23m, or slightly more than all the public-school students in New Jersey. Such numbers are notoriously imprecise, since some of the most populous states, such as Texas and Illinois, collect no meaningful data on home schooling. Still, experts reckon that the number of families teaching their children at home has exploded over the past decade and is growing by at least 15% a year.

Why? Twenty years ago home schooling was a hippie habit, the natural complement to free love and natural healing. But the flower children soon had strange bedfellows. In the mid-1980s, home schooling was embraced by Christian fundamentalists as a means of providing family-based religious and moral education. Recently, there has been a boom in secular home schoolers who are dissatisfied with public schools.

The Florida Department of Education has for years sent a crude survey to home schoolers asking them why they withdrew from the regular system. Two years ago, for the first time, dissatisfaction with the public schools was a more common answer than religious preference. According to Mary Anne Pitman, an educational anthropologist at the University of Cincinnati, one fast-growing group of home schoolers is black professionals, worried by the lack of safe, effective public schools for their children.

Two decades ago, home schooling was illegal in many states and strongly discouraged in most others. Students were hunted down as truants; parents were arrested and sometimes even jailed. All 50 states now allow it, though the degree of regulation varies enormously. In Minnesota, home schoolers must register, check in regularly, and take part in standardised exams to make sure the children are not falling behind. In Illinois, they are virtually unregulated. Some states have become downright accommodating. Washington and Iowa require the public schools to enroll children on a part-time basis if they ask for it. In California, children can enroll in an independent study programme through a public school and then do their studying at home.

Not surprisingly, the busiest opponents of all this are school administrators, particularly superintendents. They can be expected to have a belief in public schools, of course, but not all their concerns are so well-intentioned. In most states, schools are financed according to the number of pupils attending. “Superintendents see every kid who doesn’t come in as a potential $6,000 loss,” says Michael Farris, the president of the Home School Legal Defence Association (HSLDA). The teachers’ unions are not fond of home schooling, either. The National Education Association handbook declares that “home schooling programmes cannot provide the student with a comprehensive education experience.”

Yet the legal climate has changed, in large part, because home schoolers have developed into a potent political and legal force. Their association with the Christian right has earned them strong Republican backing. They are also very good at bare-knuckle, grass-roots politics. The HSLDA has a staff of 50, including seven lawyers, who lobby on Capitol Hill but also pick fights at the state level. When a Michigan couple was arrested in 1985 for teaching their child at home without a teacher’s licence, the HSLDA fought the case all the way to the Michigan Supreme Court, where the law requiring home-schooling parents to be licensed teachers was struck down as unconstitutional. Mr Farris boasts that he can generate 100 telephone calls to every congressional office within a matter of hours.

At the same time, public opinion on home schooling has shifted. When the Phi Delta Kappa/Gallup poll on public attitudes towards education first asked about home schooling in 1985, 73% of those surveyed said it was a bad thing, compared with 16% who approved. When the same question was asked in 1997, the objectors had fallen to 57% and the supporters had more than doubled, to 36%. Favourable stories about home schooling are starting to creep into mainstream magazines. Amazon.com, the biggest Internet bookseller, now lists over 200 books on the subject.

But what happens to the children? The HSLDA claims that, on average, home-schooled students outperform their public-school peers by more than 30 percentage points in all subjects, and that the longer a child is schooled at home the larger the test gap grows. The figures may be tilted, and home-schooled students, whose parents are an exacting bunch, would probably do well in public schools too. Still, home schooling is not creating a generation of dullards.

Harvard has seen fit to accept a handful of these children over the past two decades. “Some of these kids are absolutely terrific. They’ve done interesting things,” says David Illingworth, the senior admissions officer. Mr Illingworth has challenged the movement to find a better name, since many of its most successful students have taken some courses in public schools and even in community colleges. The picture of a mother working with her children round the kitchen table does not do justice to the idea, he says.

And there is a harder question: is it possible to develop socially without ever going to school? Home schoolers argue that their children are exposed to children and adults of varying ages rather than becoming “peer-dependent”. Mr Farris decided to begin educating his six-year-old daughter at home when he realised that she cared more about the approval of other six-year-olds than she did about her own family. “Real life”, he says, “does not consist of age-segregated herds.” Harvard’s Mr Illingworth says the sociability of home-schooled applicants varies as much as it does among ordinary ones. The exceptions come from religious families who have deliberately withdrawn their children from a world they consider tainted.

One shadow lies over home schooling. Joe Nathan, a senior fellow at the Hubert Humphrey Institute at the University of Minnesota, has spent much time interviewing parents who teach at home. Most want to give their children a better education; but a tiny minority are dangerously racist, angry or alienated. “There are some real haters,” says Mr Nathan. In general, he considers home schooling to be a good thing for bringing change to the public schools; many home schoolers have already been drawn back into the system by charter schools and other such experiments. But there is a worrying group lurking in the home-schooling shadows.

Even so, most home-schooling parents choose to teach their children at home at great cost to themselves because they reckon the public schools are missing the mark; and, in many cases, they are right. A surge of defections may finally send a wake-up call to the whole public system. Rather than merely talking of change, it is time to bring some about.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displays…ry_id=E1_TPNPVR

George Bush's secret army

Feb 26th 2004 | WASHINGTON, DC

From The Economist print edition

A revolution is happening in American education. As it grows in size, it should frighten teachers everywhere

JUST how bad are American schools? And how deeply do conservative Americans distrust their government? One answer to both these questions is provided by the growth of home-schooling. As many as 2m American students—one in 25—may now be being taught at home.

The growth of home-schooling is all the more remarkable when you consider two facts. The first is the commitment of the parents. They give up not just a free public education, but also often the chance of a second income as well, because one parent (usually the mother) has to stay at home to educate the children.

The next is that the practice challenges most of the assumptions behind public education. For most of the past 150 years, compulsory mass education has been the hallmark of a civilised society. Sociologists such as Max Weber have hailed the state's domination of education as a natural corollary of “modernisation”. Yet in the most advanced country on the planet (on many measures), more than 2m parents insist that education ought to be the work of the family. How has this come about?

Faith's imperatives

The 2m figure comes from the Home School Legal Defence Association. The most recent (1999) survey by the Department of Education put the number at only 850,000. The chances are that the HSLDA is closer to the truth. Rod Paige, the education secretary, uses its figure in his speeches, and, although home-schoolers tend to refuse to answer government surveys, a wealth of anecdotal evidence suggests that home-schooling is on the rise.

The market for teaching materials and supplies for home-schoolers is worth at least $850m a year. More than three-quarters of universities now have policies for dealing with home-schooled children. Support networks have sprung up in hundreds of towns and cities across the country to allow parents to do everything from establishing science labs to forming sports teams and defending their rights and reputation. When J.C. Penney started selling a T-shirt in 2001 that featured “Home Skooled” with a picture of a trailer home, the store faced so many complaints that it withdrew the item from sale.

Home-schooling is a fairly recent phenomenon. When Ronald Reagan came to power, in 1981, it was illegal for parents to teach their own children in most states. Today it is a legal right in all 50 states. Twenty-eight states require home-schooled children to undergo some kind of official evaluation, either by taking standardised tests or submitting a portfolio of work. Thirteen states simply require parents to inform officials that they are going to teach their children at home. In Texas, a parent doesn't have to tell anyone anything.

The main reason why legal restrictions on home-schooling have been swept away across so much of America is the power of the Christian right. Not all home-schoolers, of course, are religious conservatives. One of the first advocates of home-schooling, John Holt, was a left-winger who regarded schools as instruments of the bureaucratic-industrial complex. A lively subdivision of the home-school movement, called “unschooling”, argues that children should more or less be left to educate themselves. And the number of black home-schoolers is growing rapidly.

Yet the Praetorian Guard of the home-schooling movement are social conservatives. They turned to home-schooling in the 1970s in response to what they saw as the school system's lurch to the secular left—and they still provide most of the movement's political muscle on Capitol Hill. Senator Rick Santorum home-schools his children—or, rather, his wife does. Another Republican home-schooler, Congresswoman Marilyn Musgrave, sponsored a bill to clear up various legal confusions about grants and scholarships for home-schooled children.

George Bush has tried hard to keep home-schoolers on his side. During the 2000 campaign, he said: “In Texas we view home-schooling as something to be respected and something to be protected. Respected for the energy and commitment of loving mothers and loving fathers. Protected from the interference of government.” As president, he has held several receptions for home-schooled children in the White House.

Just as the teachers' unions provide so many of the Democrats' volunteers, home-schoolers are important Republican foot-soldiers. According to the HSLDA, 76% of home-schooled young people aged 18-24 vote in elections, compared with 29% in that age group in the general population. Home-schoolers are also significantly more likely to contribute to political campaigns and to work for candidates—normally Republican ones.

An education that works

So there is certainly an ideological edge to many home-schoolers. But do not be misled. First, this is a bottom-up movement with parents of whatever political stripe making individual decisions to withdraw their children (rather than following orders from higher up). Second, the movement has a utilitarian edge. Home-schoolers simply believe that they can offer their children better education at home.

One-to-one tuition, goes the argument, enables children to go at their own pace, rather than at a pace set for the convenience of teaching unions. And children can be taught “proper” subjects based on the Judeo-Christian tradition of learning, rather than politically correct flimflam. Some home-schoolers favour the classical notion of the trivium, with its three stages of grammar, dialectic and rhetoric (which requires children to learn Greek and Latin).

This sounds backward-looking, but home-schoolers claim that technology is on their side. The internet is making it ever easier to teach people at home, ever more teaching materials are available, and virtual communities now exist that allow home-schoolers to swap information.

The other factor working in home-schooling's favour is its own success. Many parents have been nervous about home-schooled children being isolated. With almost every town in America now boasting its own home-schooling network, that worry declines. Home-schooled children can play baseball with other home-schooled children; they can go on school trips; and so on.

What about academic standards? The home-schooling network buzzes with good news: a family with three home-schooled children at Harvard; a home-schooler with a bestselling novel; first, second and third place in the 2000 National Spelling Bee; a first university for home-schooled children (see article). Systematic evidence is more difficult to find.

There are certainly signs that home-schoolers are thriving. One recent survey by the HSLDA showed that three-quarters of home-educated adults aged 18-24 have taken college-level courses compared with 46% of the general population. But this is hardly conclusive. Home-schoolers do not have to report bad results. Moreover, home-schoolers may simply come from the more educated part of the population.

Yet these arguments point to change in the way the debate is unfolding. It is no longer about whether home-schooled children are losing out, but whether they are doing unfairly well. “Maybe we should subcontract all of public education to home-schoolers,” Bill Bennett, Mr Reagan's education secretary, once wondered mischievously. That looks unlikely. But America's home-schoolers represent an assault on public education that teachers everywhere should pay attention to.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displays…y_id=E1_NQVJQTT

When Mum is Miss

May 26th 2005

From The Economist print edition

Choosier parents and better technology equal more home education

EDUCATION is compulsory in Britain, whether at school “or otherwise”; and “otherwise” is becoming more popular. In 1999, only 12,000 children were listed as being home-schooled. Now that figure is 20,000, according to Mike Fortune-Wood, an educational researcher. But he thinks that, as most home-taught children never go near a school and are therefore invisible to officialdom, the total is probably nearer 50,000.

As usual, Britain lies between Europe and America. In Germany, home teaching is illegal. In America, it's huge: over 1m children are home-schooled, mainly by religious parents. These are a small minority among British home-educators, who consist mainly of two types: hippyish middle-class parents who dislike schools on principle, and those whose children are unhappy at school.

The growth is overwhelmingly in this second category, says Roland Meighan, a home-education expert and publisher. One reason is that technology has made home-education easier. The internet allows parents to know as much as teachers. It is also a way of organising get-togethers, sharing tips and outwitting official hassles. That supplements events such as the annual home-education festival last week, where 1,600 parents and children enjoyed Egyptian dancing and labyrinth-building on a muddy hillside in Devon.

But a bigger reason for the growth is changing attitudes. Centralisation, government targets and a focus on exams have made state schools less customer-friendly and more boring. Classes are still based strictly on age groups, which is hard for children who differ sharply from the average. Mr Fortune-Wood notes that the National Health Service is now far more accommodating of patients' wishes about timing, venue and treatment. “It's happened in health. Why can't it happen in education?” he asks.

Perhaps because other businesses tend to make more effort to satisfy individual needs, parents are getting increasingly picky. In the past, if their child was bullied, not coping or bored, they tended to put up with it. Now they complain, and if that doesn't work they vote with their (children's) feet. Some educationalists worry that home-schooling may hurt children's psychological and educational development. Home educators cite statistics* showing that it helps both educational attainment and the course of grown-up life.

Labour's latest big idea in education is “personalisation”, which is intended to allow much more flexible timing and choice of subjects. In theory, that might stem the drift to home-schooling. Many home-educators would like to be able to use school facilities occasionally—in science lessons, say, or to sit exams. But for now, schools, and the officials who regulate them, like the near-monopoly created by the rule of “all or nothing”.

http://www.economist.com/world/britain/dis…y_id=E1_QDTDGTD

Posté
+1

pour ma part j'ai fermement l'intention d' "home-schooler" mes enfants ( avec des précepteurs ) dans un futur nebuleux, mais je crains de trop les isoler en pratiquant ainsi… l'école c'est aussi apprendre à être confronté aux autres.

Sport, camps de vacance, scoutisme, etc.

Posté
Sport, camps de vacance, scoutisme, etc.

Pour avoir souffert des colonies, les camps de vacances jamais de la vie. Pour ce qui est du scoutisme à ma connaissance ils sont soit religieux, soit pastèques :icon_up: Enfin ca dépend du pays sans doute.

Posté
Pour ce qui est du scoutisme à ma connaissance ils sont soit religieux, soit pastèques :icon_up: Enfin ca dépend du pays sans doute.

En Belgique, il existe la patrouille des Faucons rouges.

Posté
Pour avoir souffert des colonies, les camps de vacances jamais de la vie. Pour ce qui est du scoutisme à ma connaissance ils sont soit religieux, soit pastèques :doigt: Enfin ca dépend du pays sans doute.

C'est que tu es réfractaire à toute sociabilisation. Il y a des gosses qui préfèrent être seuls ou faire les 400 coups avec deux ou trois bons copains.

Je détestais la colo également avant de faire intimement connaissance avec Ingrid :icon_up:

Posté

C'est bien beau tout ça, mais l'éducation à la maison faite au compte goutte ne fera pas reculer l'état. L'état ne se réforme qu'en situation de crise. Il n'y a pas de débat sur l'éducation puisqu'il n'y a pas de crise. Pour faire avancer les idées libérales, il faut s'insérer dans le débat, et pour qu'il y ait un débat sur des sujets qui nous avantagent il faut créer la crise. Là est l'intérêt d'avoir un parti politique avec le pouvoir de mobiliser un grand nombre de militant.

Un million d'enfants peuvent être retiré progressivement du système d'éducation sans que personne ne le perçoive. S'ils sont tous retirés en même temps, là le débat est lancé.

Posté
C'est bien beau tout ça, mais l'éducation à la maison faite au compte goutte ne fera pas reculer l'état. L'état ne se réforme qu'en situation de crise. Il n'y a pas de débat sur l'éducation puisqu'il n'y a pas de crise. Pour faire avancer les idées libérales, il faut s'insérer dans le débat, et pour qu'il y ait un débat sur des sujets qui nous avantagent il faut créer la crise. Là est l'intérêt d'avoir un parti politique avec le pouvoir de mobiliser un grand nombre de militant.

Un million d'enfants peuvent être retiré progressivement du système d'éducation sans que personne ne le perçoive. S'ils sont tous retirés en même temps, là le débat est lancé.

On peut souhaiter sauver son enfant sans vouloir sauver ceux que leurs parents ne veulent pas sauver.

Posté
On peut souhaiter sauver son enfant sans vouloir sauver ceux que leurs parents ne veulent pas sauver.

Et s'ils le veulent mais ont peur?

Posté
C'est bien beau tout ça, mais l'éducation à la maison faite au compte goutte ne fera pas reculer l'état. L'état ne se réforme qu'en situation de crise. Il n'y a pas de débat sur l'éducation puisqu'il n'y a pas de crise. Pour faire avancer les idées libérales, il faut s'insérer dans le débat, et pour qu'il y ait un débat sur des sujets qui nous avantagent il faut créer la crise. Là est l'intérêt d'avoir un parti politique avec le pouvoir de mobiliser un grand nombre de militant.

Tu pense que l'ED n'est pas en crise ?

Vu le nombre d'enfant qui quittent le système sans aucun diplome et la grande majorité de bachelier qui pensent être au niveau bac et qui vont ensuite s'occuper quelques années en fac en pure perte pour au final se retrouver caissier avec un bac +4; je pense que l'on peut appeller cela une crise.

D'autre part il y une demande massive d'inscription en école privée, avant c'étaient plutôt les bourgeois qui visaient ce genre d'établissement, maintenant la classe moyenne se rue également vers le privé.

Posté
Tatcher n'a pu faire passer ses réformes que grâce à la guerre de malouine qui, comme toutes les guerres gagnées, lui a permis de souder le peuple derrière son chef. Il n'y aurait pas eu cette guerre, elle aurait été defenestrée par le parti conservateur qui se demandait comment il avait pu faire élire cette folle.

ça lui à permi de passer les premiéres élections mais ce n'est pas ça qui à fait sont succes pendant 12 ans.

Madsen Pirie explique trés bien cette aventure pendant et le methodes utilisées avec succes dans son bouquin.

La micropolitique

La domination étatique repose sur un ensemble symbolique, très dur à attaquer, et sur une réalité matérielle qui est aujourd'hui son point faible. Le pouvoir de l'Etat, sa capacité à agir, est concentrée dans ses dossiers. Mettez un virus informatiques particulièrement méchant sur le serveur de la sécurité sociale et c'en est fini de l'assistanat en France.

Quoi y a des micros à la sécu !

Posté
Tatcher n'a pu faire passer ses réformes que grâce à la guerre de malouine qui, comme toutes les guerres gagnées, lui a permis de souder le peuple derrière son chef. Il n'y aurait pas eu cette guerre, elle aurait été defenestrée par le parti conservateur qui se demandait comment il avait pu faire élire cette folle.

Intéressant : tu as des sources disponibles ?

Posté
Et s'ils le veulent mais ont peur?
Et si mettre au monde des enfants et les élever demandait un minimum de courage?
Rien de précis comme ça. Un article lu il y a quelques années, je ne sais plus où…
Elle est arrivé en poste en 79, non? Et la guerre des Malouines a eu lieu en 82. J'ai du mal à croire qu'elle n'avait rien fait dans l'intervalle. Non pas que je contesterais un prononcement du maître, loin de moi une telle présomption.

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