L'armée américaine frappe un hôpital de MSF

[Lameador]

En cas de guerre asymétrique avec une forte utilisation de la domination aérienne (US-talibans, Russie-EI, Arabie Séoudite-milices yéménites, Ukraine-rebelles, OTAN-Serbie, ...), une stratégie délibérée et efficace de l'état belligérant est de détruire la légitimité du groupe non-étatique en lui déniant la capacité à ce que sa zone de contrôle reçoive des services civils de base (santé, eau, électricité, nourriture, retraites, ...)

 

L'action des ONG sappe cette stratégie, et la tentation est forte pour certains militaires de faire des bavures sur hôpitaux humanitaires qui renforcent la capacité de l'ennemi à permettre une vie civile dans sa zone de contrôle (et soignent les blessés ennemis).

 

On pourrait qualifier celà de crimes de guerre (et on ne se gêne pas pour le faire quand un état hostile aux US est impliqué), mais il faudrait dès lors enfermer la moitié du Pentagone. 

 

Je n'en fait surtout pas l'apologie, mais je rappelle simplement que la guerre, c'est l'usage de la force (et non celui du droit) et que les résultats sont souvent toujours moches.

[FabriceM]

 mais il faudrait dès lors enfermer la moitié du Pentagone

 

Autant la dénazification de l'allemagne fut compliquée vu que 10% de la population avait été affiliée au parti, autant mettre au trou et juger la moitié du pentagone est numériquement faisable.

 

Mais depuis la deuxième guerre mondiale ... la notion de crime de guerre a quasiment disparu. Personne n'a jamais été jugé pour les centaines de milliers (millions ?) de morts des bombardements alliés sur les civils, en en Allemagne, au Japon, et même en France.

[Tramp]

C'est réservé aux tiers-mondistes, les occidentaux ne sauraient être des barbares.

[FabriceM]

Doctors were performing surgery. Nurses milled about attending to bed-bound patients, including two children. The surrounding compound was calm and quiet, according to witnesses.

Then an American AC-130 arrived and began firing its fearsome weapons. The Intensive Care Unit was hit first.

Several doctors and nurses were killed immediately, and patients who couldn't move burned to death in the ensuing fire, according to a detailed new account of the attack by the international aid group based on interviews with 60 staff members.

The 13-page report disclosed no major revelations but painted a clearer picture of what the group says was happening in the hospital in the days before the U.S. strike that American officials are calling a mistake. Doctors Without Borders says at least 30 people were killed.

During an aerial attack that lasted an hour, staff members made 18 attempts to call or text U.S. and Afghan authorities, the group says. Witnesses recalled hearing the whine of propellers and experiencing a series of ground-shaking explosions.

People fleeing the main building were cut down by gunfire that appeared to track their movements, while a patient trying to escape in a wheelchair was killed by shrapnel, the report says.

The AC130, a large propeller plane, fires three types of munitions, including an electric Gatling-style machine gun that can fire as many as 6,000 rounds per minute, and a 105mm cannon that can blow huge holes in buildings.

The charity acknowledged that as many as half of the patients in the days leading up to the attack were Taliban fighters wounded in battle as U.S.-backed Afghan forces sought to retake Kunduz, which had been seized by the Taliban. Two of the Taliban patients appeared to have been high-ranking, the report says.

But Doctors Without Borders staffers say no one was armed and no one was firing from the hospital, as an initial American account suggested. The group says it didn't allow weapons in the hospital and didn't have armed guards.

If that account is true, the hospital could not have been a valid target under U.S. rules of engagement or the international law of war.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HOSPITAL_ATTACK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-10-26-15-55-36

 

Medical aid group Medicins Sans Frontieres (MSF) said Thursday it was hard to believe a U.S. strike on an Afghan hospital last month was a mistake, as it had reports of fleeing people being shot from an aircraft.

"All the information that we've provided so far shows that a mistake is quite hard to understand and believe at this stage," MSF General Director Christopher Stokes told reporters while presenting the group's internal report on the incident.

The report said many staff described "seeing people being shot, most likely from the plane" as they tried to flee the main hospital building, which was under attack by U.S. military aircraft.

At least 30 people were killed when the hospital in Kunduz was hit by a powerful U.S. attack aircraft on Oct. 3 while Afghan government forces were battling to regain control of the northern city from Taliban forces who had seized it days earlier.

    The United States has said the hospital was hit by accident and two separate investigations by the U.S. and NATO are underway. But the circumstances of the incident, one of the worst of its kind during the 14-year conflict, are still unclear.

    Stokes told reporters the organisation was still awaiting an explanation from the U.S. military.

"From what we are seeing now, this action is illegal in the laws of war," Stokes said. "There are still many unanswered questions, including who took the final decision, who gave the targeting instructions for the hospital."

Capt. Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman, said MSF shared the report in advance with the U.S. Defence Department.

"Since this tragic incident, we have worked closely with MSF to determine the facts surrounding it," he said in a statement, which did not address the report's specifics. "We are committed to conducting investigations that are thorough and transparent."

The White House said U.S. President Barack Obama had been briefed on the MSF report.

Several Afghan officials have suggested Taliban fighters were using the hospital as a base, a claim that MSF firmly rejects. It says the facility was under its control at all times and there were no armed fighters present either before or during the attack.

The hospital was treating wounded combatants from both sides as well as civilians, but the group says it always maintained a strict policy of neutrality between the two sides.

"Treating wounded combatants is not a crime," Stokes said.

MSF says the site's location had been clearly communicated to both Afghan forces and the Taliban and it was clearly identifiable as a hospital.

"That night, it was one of the few buildings with electrical power, it was fully lit up," Stokes said.

He also said that inspections of the area around the hospital since the Taliban withdrew from Kunduz last month did not reveal signs of heavy fighting.

MSF, called Doctors Without Borders in English, has revised the original casualty figure upwards and now says 30 people, including 13 staff members and three children, were killed during repeated attacks by the U.S. gunship.

The U.S. investigation is headed by a U.S. general and two brigadier generals.

A separate NATO casualty report into the incident, originally expected in October, has been delayed while the investigation continues, U.S. Defence Secretary Ash Carter announced last month.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/05/us-afghanistan-attack-msf-idUSKCN0SU27J20151105

 

Lien pour le téléchargement direct du rapport de MSF : http://www.msf.fr/sites/www.msf.fr/files/review_final_041115_for_public_release.doc

(Par contre, il faut coller un taquet à l'incapable qui a autorisé la diffusion d'un document au format .doc non protégé ... )

 

Extraits du rapport :

Tuesday 29 September

Due to the increased intensity of fighting in Kunduz, MSF reaffirmed the well-known location of the KTC by once again emailing its GPS coordinates to US Department of Defense, Afghan Ministry of Interior and Defense and US army in Kabul. The GPS coordinates provided for the KTC were: 36°43'4.91"N 68°51'43.96"E (for the main hospital building) and 36°43'4.29"N 68°51'42.62"E (for the administrative office building within KTC). 

Confirmation of receipt was received from both US Department of Defense and US army representatives, both of whom assured us that the coordinates had been passed on to the appropriate parties. Oral confirmation was received from the Afghan Ministry of Interior. MSF also shared the GPS coordinates with a UN intermediary who confirmed transmission directly to Operation Resolute Support.

 

 

Wednesday 30 September

By Wednesday, MSF was aware of two wounded Taliban patients that appeared to have had higher rank. This was assumed for multiple reasons: being brought in to the hospital by several combatants, and regular inquiries about their medical condition in order to accelerate treatment for rapid discharge.

 

Thursday 1 October

MSF received a question from a US Government official in Washington D.C., asking whether the hospital or any other of MSF’s locations had a large number of Taliban “holed up” and enquired about the safety of our staff. MSF replied that our staff were working at full capacity in Kunduz and that the hospital was full of patients including wounded Taliban combatants some of whom had been referred to the MSF medical post in Chardara. MSF also expressed that we were very clear with both sides to the conflict about the need to respect medical structures as a condition to our ability to continue working.

A UN civilian/military liaison advised MSF to remain within the GPS coordinates provided to all parties to the conflict as “bombing is ongoing in Kunduz.”

 

Friday 2 October

On Friday, two MSF flags were placed on the roof of the hospital, in addition to the existing flag that was being flown at the entrance to the Trauma Centre.  The KTC was also one of the only buildings in the city that had full electricity from generator power on the night of the airstrikes.

 

 

The US aerial attack (early AM 3 October 2015)

 

According to all accounts the US airstrikes started between 2.00am and 2.08am on 3 October.

Despite it being in the middle of the night, the MSF hospital was busy and fully functional at the time of the airstrike. Medical staff were making the most of the quiet night to catch up on the backlog of pending surgeries. When the aerial attack began, there were 105 patients in the hospital. MSF estimates that between 3 and 4 of the patients were wounded government combatants, and approximately 20 patients were wounded Taliban. One hundred and forty MSF national staff and nine MSF international staff were present in the hospital compound at the time of the attack, as well as 1 ICRC delegate. 

It is estimated that the airstrikes lasted approximately one hour, with some accounts saying the strikes continued for one hour and fifteen minutes, ending approximately 3am–3.15am.

 

Summary phone log of contacts MSF made during the US airstrikes

 

MSF made multiple calls and SMS contacts in an attempt to stop the airstrikes:

- At 2.19am, a call was made from MSF representative in Kabul to Resolute Support in Afghanistan informing them that the hospital had been hit in an airstrike

- At 2.20am, a call was made from MSF representative in Kabul to ICRC informing them that the hospital had been hit in an airstrike

- At 2.32am a call was made from MSF Kabul to OCHA Civil Military (CivMil) liaison in Afghanistan to inform of the ongoing strikes

- At 2.32am a call was made by MSF in New York to US Department of Defense contact in Washington informing of the airstrikes

- At 2.45am an SMS was received from OCHA CivMil in Afghanistan to MSF in Kabul confirming that the information had been passed through “several channels”

- At 2.47am, an SMS was sent from MSF in Kabul to Resolute Support in Afghanistan informing that one staff was confirmed dead and many were unaccounted for

- At 2.50am MSF in Kabul informed Afghan Ministry of Interior at Kabul level of the airstrikes. Afghan Ministry of Interior replied that he would contact ground forces 

- At 2.52am a reply was received by MSF in Kabul from Resolute Support stating “I’m sorry to hear that, I still do not know what happened”

- At 2.56am an SMS was sent from MSF in Kabul to Resolute Support insisting that the airstrikes stop and informing that we suspected heavy casualties

- At 2.59am an SMS reply was received by MSF in Kabul from Resolute Support saying ”I’ll do my best, praying for you all”

- At 3.04am an SMS was sent to Resolute Support from MSF in Kabul that the hospital was on fire

- At 3.07am an SMS was sent from MSF in Kabul to OCHA CivMil that the hospital was on fire

- At 3.09am an SMS was received by MSF in Kabul from OCHA CivMil asking if the incoming had stopped

- At 3.10am and again at 3.14am, follow up calls were made from MSF New York to the US Department of Defense contact in Washington regarding the ongoing airstrikes

- At 3.13am an SMS was sent from MSF in Kabul to OCHA CivMil saying that incoming had stopped

- At 3.15am an SMS was received from CivMil OCHA stating that information had been passed to Resolute Support in the North and CJOC in Kabul as well as ANA in Kabul and the North

- At 3.18am an SMS was sent from MSF in New York to US Department of Defence contact in Washington that one staff was confirmed dead and many were unaccounted for

 

All of the MSF staff reported that the no weapons policy was respected in the Trauma Centre.  In the week prior to the airstrikes, the ban of weapons inside the MSF hospital

was strictly implemented and controlled at all times and all MSF staff positively reported in their debriefing on the Taliban and Afghan army compliance with the no-weapon policy. 

From all MSF accounts, there was no shooting from or around the Trauma Centre and the compound was in full MSF control with our rules and procedures fully respected.

 

 

Le schéma et les photos des zones touchées montrent que ce sont les bâtiments médicaux qui ont clairement été visés, et totalement détruits.

[FabriceM]

A posteriori, tous les efforts de MSF pour dire "eh oh, on est là, on est gentils" ressemblent plutôt à des efforts pour représenter la cible la plus facile du monde pour le bombardier de l'armée US.

 

Si j'étais MSF, je commencerais à écrire un scénario. Ca fera un très bon film. Avec une fin qui met bien les boules.

[poney]

Je sais plus ou j'ai lu une interview d'un type de MSF qui disait quasiment mot pour mot "ce bombardement a été fait pour tuer et faire des dégâts".

Parce qu'il existe une manière de bombarder qui n'est pas faite pour tuer ou faire des dégâts , genre un "bombardement de semonce" ?

[Tramp]

Les frappes chirurgicales, ça soigne.

[poney]

Surtout sur un hopital

[NoName]

Je sais plus ou j'ai lu une interview d'un type de MSF qui disait quasiment mot pour mot "ce bombardement a été fait pour tuer et faire des dégâts".

Parce qu'il existe une manière de bombarder qui n'est pas faite pour tuer ou faire des dégâts , genre un "bombardement de semonce" ?

 

ça existe probablement, faudrait demander à Neuron

[Mathieu_D]

On appelle ça un "show of force".

[Tramp]

L'incompétence tue :

Le Monde.fr - Pour les Etats-Unis, une « erreur humaine » à l’origine de l’attaque de l’hôpital de MSF à Kunduz

L’attaque, qui a fait 30 morts le 3 octobre, était censée viser un bâtiment contrôlé par les talibans.

http://mobile.lemonde.fr/asie-pacifique/article/2015/11/25/pour-les-etats-unis-une-erreur-humaine-a-l-origine-de-l-attaque-de-l-hopital-de-msf-kunduz_4817379_3216.html

30 homicides, ça mérite bien une procédure disciplinaire.

[FabriceM]

L'incompétence tue :

Le Monde.fr - Pour les Etats-Unis, une « erreur humaine » à l’origine de l’attaque de l’hôpital de MSF à Kunduz

L’attaque, qui a fait 30 morts le 3 octobre, était censée viser un bâtiment contrôlé par les talibans.

http://mobile.lemonde.fr/asie-pacifique/article/2015/11/25/pour-les-etats-unis-une-erreur-humaine-a-l-origine-de-l-attaque-de-l-hopital-de-msf-kunduz_4817379_3216.html

30 homicides, ça mérite bien une procédure disciplinaire.

 

L'erreur était impossble. C'était le seul bâtiment éclairé  (et le seul hopital) à des kilomètres à la ronde. Avec 3 drapeaux MSF sur le toit. Ceux qui ont tiré sur l'hopital et les personnes en son sein savaient très bien où ils mettaient les pied. Et n'ont pas discuté les ordres.

 

http://www.liberaux.org/index.php/topic/52694-larmée-américaine-frappe-un-hôpital-de-msf/?p=1315822

[FabriceM]

Et un de plus ...

 

 

Pas trouvé précisement par qui il avait été bombardé ... problablement le régime.

[G7H+]

Et/ou les Russes.