Fusillade de Kenosha

[Freezbee]

Je n'avais pas suivi l'affaire jusqu'à ce soir lorsque je suis tombé par hasard sur la vidéo de la fusillade, puis sur cet article du Monde (qui brille par son objectivité) :

 

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Après le meurtre de deux manifestants à Kenosha, les Etats-Unis paralysés par la violence d’extrême droite

 

La scène, filmée et postée sur les réseaux sociaux, est édifiante. Poursuivi, Kyle Rittenhouse tombe à terre avec son fusil d’assaut et n’hésite pas à tirer directement à plusieurs reprises sur ses opposants, atteignant l’un à la tête, le deuxième à la poitrine tandis qu’un troisième a eu le bras déchiqueté. Fusil-mitrailleur à la main, il quitte ensuite la scène, marchant dans la rue vers des véhicules de police qui arrivent sur les lieux du drame, levant les mains en l’air, puis disparaissant sans être inquiété.

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La violence d'extrême-gauche passe à la trappe. Les agresseurs deviennent des « opposants », un fusil semi-automatique devient un « fusil mitrailleur » et le tireur (qui pourrait plaider la légitime défense, d'après ce que j'ai vu sur la vidéo) « n'hésite pas à tirer à plusieurs reprises ». Pour certains de ses détracteurs, Kyle Rittenhouse est un tueur de masse que des - gentils - manifestants tentaient de neutraliser.

 

Quoi qu'il en soit, le gars au skate board mériterait un Darwin Award ; il faut vraiment être c... pour s'attaquer de cette façon à un type armé d'un AR-15 :

 

[Freezbee]

Le profil des victimes :

 

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Joseph Rosenbaum

A convicted child molester.

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Anthon Huber

A convicted domestic abuser and all around “Peaceful Person”.

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Gaige Grosskreutz

A Burgler and supposed “medic” carrying a handgun.

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[Freezbee]

La vidéo :

 

 

[Zagor]

Quand des émeutiers pillent les commerces et tuent lors des émeutes, aucuun médias n'en parle. Par contre, ça riposte contre des manifestants plus que troubles c'est l'extrème droite nazi.

Au fait, les médias mainstream sont au courant qu'ils sont sur la liste des antifas de personnes à éliminer?

[Boz]

  Le 28/08/2020 à 20:09, Zagor a dit :

Quand des émeutiers pillent les commerces et tuent lors des émeutes

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J'ai pas suivi il y a eu beaucoup de gens tués par des émeutiers ?

[Zagor]

  Le 28/08/2020 à 20:14, Boz a dit :

J'ai pas suivi il y a eu beaucoup de gens tués par des émeutiers ?

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Une 15aines https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-03/us-protests-george-floyd-police-custody-death-donald-trump-biden/12313240

Bon après c'est en partie entre eux au sein de leur ZAD à Seattle. https://www.q13fox.com/news/enough-1-killed-1-critically-injured-in-shooting-in-seattles-protest-zone

[Freezbee]

  Le 28/08/2020 à 20:14, Boz a dit :

J'ai pas suivi il y a eu beaucoup de gens tués par des émeutiers ?

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Je ne sais pas s'il y en a beaucoup, mais en tous cas ça arrive :

 

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Nearly a dozen deaths tied to continuing unrest in US

 

One man was a retired St Louis police captain checking on his friend's shop. Another was the beloved owner of a Louisville barbecue restaurant who provided free meals to officers. Yet another was a man known as "Mr Indianapolis", a former star football player.

 

They are among those killed as protests have roiled American cities in the week since the death of George Floyd, a Black man who pleaded for air as a white Minneapolis officer jammed a knee into his neck.

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[Freezbee]

Voici le déroulement des faits :

 

  Citation

Criminal Complaint Against Kyle Rittenhouse Details Prosecutors’ Version Of Events In Kenosha Shooting That Killed 2, Wounded 1

 

KENOSHA, Wis. (CBS) — A criminal complaint issued Thursday detailed what prosecutors said was the chain of events when Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, shot and killed two people and wounded a third during civil unrest in the streets of Kenosha this week.

 

The shooting took place late Tuesday night in Kenosha, amid a third night of unrest following the shooting of 29-year-old Jacob Blake by Kenosha police.

 

Rittenhouse, of Antioch, Illinois, was charged with one count of first-degree intentional homicide, which carries a life sentence, one count of first-degree reckless homicide, which carries a prison sentence of up to 60 years, and one count of attempted first-degree intentional homicide.

 

He is also charged with one count of possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, and two counts of recklessly endangering safety.

 

Prosecutors said at 11:45 p.m. on Tuesday, Aug. 25 – hours after an 8 p.m. curfew had gone into effect for Kenosha County east of Interstate 94 due to civil unrest – Rittenhouse shot and killed Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, of Kenosha, at the Car Source used car dealership at the northwest corner of 63rd Street and Sheridan Road in Kenosha.

 

Rosenbaum was pronounced dead at a local hospital at 12:47 a.m. Wednesday, prosecutors said.

 

Prosecutors said cellphone video obtained and reviewed by police showed Rittenhouse running southwest across the eastern portion of the Car Source parking lot holding a long gun – which was later recovered by police and identified as a Smith & Wesson AR-15 style .223 rifle. The recovered magazine with the gun holds 30 rounds, prosecutors said.

 

Rosenbaum is seen following Rittenhouse, and trailing behind them is a reporter identified as Richard McGinnis, who interviewed Rittenhouse for the Daily Caller.

 

The video showed as they all crossed the parking lot, Rosenbaum appeared to throw a plastic bag at Rittenhouse, but the bag did not hit him, prosecutors said.

 

Rosenbaum appears to be unarmed for the duration of the first video, prosecutors said.

 

A second video showed Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum continuing to move across the parking lot and approach a black car parked in the lot. A loud bang is heard, and then a man shouts, “F**k you!” prosecutors said. Afterward, Rosenbaum approaches Rittenhouse and gets close and four more loud bangs are heard, prosecutors said.

 

Rosenbaum then falls to the ground, and remains there as Rittenhouse circles back behind the black car and approached him, prosecutors said. McGinnis also approached Rosenbaum, removed his own shirt, and tried to render aid, prosecutors said.

 

Meanwhile, Rittenhouse appeared to get on his cellphone and make a call. As another man approached, Rittenhouse ran from the scene, and as he was heard saying on the phone, “I just killed somebody,” prosecutors said.

 

A Kenosha police detective interviewed McGinnis, who said he was a trained medic. McGinnis also told the detective he had handled many ARs and that Rittenhouse was not handling the gun he was holding very well, prosecutors said.

 

McGinnis said as he and Rittenhouse were walking south, another armed man who appeared to be in his 30s joined him and said he was there to protect Rittenhouse, prosecutors said.

 

McGinnis said before Rittenhouse reached the parking lot and ran across it, Rittenhouse had moved from the middle of Sheridan Road where Rosenbaum initially tried to engage him, prosecutors said. Rosenbaum was trying to get a closer look at Rittenhouse and advanced, at which point Rittenhouse did a “juke” move and started running.

 

Others were also moving quickly toward Rittenhouse as he tried to evade them, McGinnis told prosecutors.

 

McGinnis said once Rittenhouse got to the black car in the parking lot, he had the gun raised, but pointed downward. Rittenhouse then brought the gun up, stepped back, and apparently fired three rounds in rapid succession, McGinnis told prosecutors.

 

McGinnis said he was behind and slightly to the right of Rosenbaum at the time and wondered whether he himself had been shot when he felt something on his leg. McGinnis had been in the line of fire, but the gun was aimed at Rosenbaum, prosecutors said.

 

McGinnis said he did not hear Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse exchange any words, and said Rosenbaum was trying to get Rittenhouse’s gun, prosecutors said.

 

Dr. P. Douglas Kelley of the Milwaukee Medical Examiner’s office determined that Rosenbaum suffered one gunshot to the groin that fractured his pelvis, another to the back which perforated his right lung and liver, another to the left hand, a superficial gunshot wound to his lateral left thigh, and a graze wound to the right side his forehead.

 

In a third video, Rittenhouse is seen turning north on Sheridan Road after he shot Rosenbaum, prosecutors said. The street and sidewalk are full of people who are running behind Rittenhouse – one is heard apparently saying, “Beat him up!” and another says, “Hey, he shot him!” prosecutors said.

 

In a fourth video, someone says, “Get him! Get that dude!” prosecutors said. Afterward, a man in a light-colored top runs toward Rittenhouse and appears to swing at him – knocking his hat off, prosecutors said.

 

Afterward, someone says, “What’d he do?” and someone else answers, “Just shot someone.” Then, a man is heard yelling, “Get his ass!” prosecutors said.

 

At that point, Rittenhouse trips and falls to the ground. Another man in a dark-colored top and light-colored pants jumps over at Rittenhouse, and based on the positioning of Rittenhouse’s gun, it appears he fires to shots in quick succession at that person, but does not hit him, prosecutors said.

 

Just after that, another man, Anthony Huber, 26, of Silver Lake, approaches Rittenhouse, who at this point is still on the ground on his back, prosecutors said. Huber has a skateboard in his right hand and appears to be reaching for Rittenhouse’s gun with his left as the skateboard makes contact with Rittenhouse’s left shoulder, prosecutors said.

 

Huber looks to be trying to pull the gun away from Rittenhouse, and Rittenhouse rolls to his left side, prosecutors said. The gun is then pointed at Huber’s body as Rittenhouse fires one round, prosecutors said.

 

Huber staggers away, takes several steps, and collapses, prosecutors said. He went on to die of the gunshot wound.

 

Dr. Kelley at the Milwaukee Medical Examiner’s office also conducted an autopsy on Huber, finding he had suffered a gunshot wound to the chest that had perforated his heart, aorta, pulmonary artery, and right lung.

 

After shooting Huber, Rittenhouse took a seated position and pointed the gun at a third man – Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, of West Allis – who had also begun to approach him, prosecutors said.

 

When Rittenhouse shot Huber, Grosskreutz froze, ducked, and took a step back with his hands in the air, prosecutors said. Grosskreutz then moved toward Rittenhouse, and Rittenhouse fired one shot at him, striking him in the right arm, prosecutors said.

 

Grosskreutz appeared to have a handgun in his right hand when he was shot, prosecutors said.

 

Grosskreutz ran south on Sheridan Road away from Rittenhouse, screaming for a medic, as Rittenhouse started walking north, prosecutors said. Rittenhouse then turned around and started walking backwards with his gun in the ready position pointed at people in the roadway, prosecutors said.

 

Police did not arrest Rittenhouse at the scene. CBS 2’s Chris Tye reported that at the end of the night, video shows Rittenhouse was able to walk right out of the Kenosha hot zone.

 

Rittenhouse was able to return to Illinois. He was arrested Wednesday morning in Antioch, and he was taken to the Lake County Juvenile Detention Center near Vernon Hills.

 

In a photo posted on Rittenhouse’s now-deleted Facebook, he’s sporting a long gun. Based on his social media posts, he appears to have been a former police explorer — a program for kids considering a career in law enforcement.

 

The Anti-Defamation League said there is no indication from his social media footprint that he was connected to any extremist movements.

 

Police so far have not commented on where Rittenhouse got a gun. Illinois law prohibits anyone under 18 from preventing a handgun.

 

Speaking to CBS News, Rittenhouse’s attorney denounced the charges.

 

“This young boy was not only attacked on the streets of Kenosha, he’s been attacked in the media and social media all over the damn world,” L. Lin Wood told CBS News. “It’s wrong. He’s a 17-year-old boy. He was not there to create trouble, but he found himself with his life threatened and he had the right to protect himself with self defense and now he finds himself accused of murder.”

 

Rittenhouse is due for an extradition hearing in Lake County Court in Waukegan at 9 a.m. Friday.

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[Domi]

L'article, publié dans un journal du soir, est édifiant. Tranquille, le journaliste écrit son article sur son clavier et n’hésite pas à mentir directement à plusieurs reprises sur ses opposants, atteignant l’un à l'honneur, le deuxième dans sa réputation tandis qu’un troisième a eu le coeur déchiqueté. Sa souris à la main, il quitte ensuite la scène, marchant dans la salle de rédaction au milieu de ses collègues, les mains dans les poches, puis disparaissant sans être inquiété.

[Vilfredo]

Je ne comprends pas pourquoi le garçon a tiré sur la première victime (Rosenbaum).

[Mister_Bretzel]

Ni pourquoi il se baladait loin de chez lui armé dans un contexte pareil. 

[Vilfredo]

  Le 28/08/2020 à 20:40, Mister_Bretzel a dit :

Ni pourquoi il se baladait loin de chez lui. 

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Apparemment il y a une milice à Kenosha

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A group calling itself the "Kenosha Guard" had earlier posted a call on Facebook asking "Any patriots willing to take up arms and defend [our] City tonight from the evil thugs?"

The same group released a statement Wednesday saying it did not know if Rittenhouse was responding to their call.

"We are unaware if the armed citizen was answering the Kenosha Guard Militia's call to arms," the group wrote on Facebook. "Just like with the shooting of Jacob Blake, we need all the facts and evidence to come out before we make a judgement."

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https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/who-is-kyle-rittenhouse-what-we-know-about-the-17-year-old-arrested-in-kenosha-shooting/2329610/

[Rübezahl]

Le moins que puisse faire un blanc CIS etc pris à parti est de se laisser faire voire lyncher sans résister.

Auquel cas il rentrera sagement dans les stats anonymes des faits divers.

Toute autre attitude = extrême drouate ou nazi au minimum.

Les MSMs fr sont à gerber une fois de plus.

J'espère que les GJ s'en payeront qqs uns.

[Freezbee]

  Le 28/08/2020 à 20:40, Vilfredo Pareto a dit :

Je ne comprends pas pourquoi le garçon a tiré sur la première victime (Rosenbaum).

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Ce n'est pas très clair... d'après un témoin Rosenbaum poursuivait et prenait à partie Rittenhouse depuis un moment et tentait d'attraper son arme :

 

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McGinnis said before Rittenhouse reached the parking lot and ran across it, Rittenhouse had moved from the middle of Sheridan Road where Rosenbaum initially tried to engage him, prosecutors said. Rosenbaum was trying to get a closer look at Rittenhouse and advanced, at which point Rittenhouse did a “juke” move and started running.

 

Others were also moving quickly toward Rittenhouse as he tried to evade them, McGinnis told prosecutors.

 

McGinnis said once Rittenhouse got to the black car in the parking lot, he had the gun raised, but pointed downward. Rittenhouse then brought the gun up, stepped back, and apparently fired three rounds in rapid succession, McGinnis told prosecutors.

 

McGinnis said he was behind and slightly to the right of Rosenbaum at the time and wondered whether he himself had been shot when he felt something on his leg. McGinnis had been in the line of fire, but the gun was aimed at Rosenbaum, prosecutors said.

 

McGinnis said he did not hear Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse exchange any words, and said Rosenbaum was trying to get Rittenhouse’s gun, prosecutors said.

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[NoName]

Source douteuse mais bon

 

Apparemment l'équipe judiciaire de Kyle déclare qu'il n'a pas passé la frontière avec l'arme maisquelle appartient à un ami de l'état 

[Frenhofer]

Factcheck et analyse des vidéos par le New York Times, à dérouler, confirmant l'idée de la légitime défense :

 

 

[Bézoukhov]

  Le 29/08/2020 à 09:54, Frenhofer a dit :

Factcheck et analyse des vidéos par le New York Times, à dérouler, confirmant l'idée de la légitime défense :

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J'avais cru comprendre que la légitime défense était évidente depuis le début et que la question est "pourquoi il se trouvait là avec une arme".

Enfin, si le NYT admet la légitime défense, c'est que l'affaire va très vite se dégonfler.

 

Les US, c'est quand même un autre monde.

[h16]

https://www.revolver.news/2020/08/new-york-times-confirms-kyle-rittenhouse-self-defense-argument/

  Le 29/08/2020 à 10:03, Bézoukhov a dit :

Enfin, si le NYT admet la légitime défense, c'est que l'affaire va très vite se dégonfler.

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Oui. Pour qu'ils en soient ainsi obligés à l'admettre, c'est que l'affirmation contraire est vraiment impossible à maintenir.

[Boz]

Oui bah ne lisez pas les commentaires épinglés par le NYT, vous allez vite déchanter.

[Zagor]

Cette affaire commence à me rappeler celle du gamin avec la casquette MAGA et du véteran. Où le responsable de la situation n'est pas celui que l'on pense.

[Bézoukhov]

  Le 29/08/2020 à 10:51, Boz a dit :

Oui bah ne lisez pas les commentaires épinglés par le NYT, vous allez vite déchanter.

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Comme tous les grands journaux, le NYT, il y a plusieurs catégories de "journalistes". On peut parfaitement avoir une section de fact checking honnête intellectuellement avec une section modération de commentaires complétement azimutée.

[Rübezahl]

  Le 29/08/2020 à 10:51, Boz a dit :

Oui bah ne lisez pas les commentaires épinglés par le NYT, vous allez vite déchanter.

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Les gars qui commentent sont a priori des abonnés.

Le gars qui en 2020 lit le NYT en payant de sa poche ... il est perdu pour le genre humain.

C'est de lire des commentaires avisés qui surprendrait.

[Frenhofer]

  Le 29/08/2020 à 11:19, Zagor a dit :

Cette affaire commence à me rappeler celle du gamin avec la casquette MAGA et du véteran. Où le responsable de la situation n'est pas celui que l'on pense.

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Exactement, et d'ailleurs ils ont le même avocat. Il a accepté de prendre la défense.

[Freezbee]

  Le 29/08/2020 à 10:03, Bézoukhov a dit :

J'avais cru comprendre que la légitime défense était évidente depuis le début et que la question est "pourquoi il se trouvait là avec une arme".

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Je ne trouve pas ça si évident... La question est de savoir s'il a tiré sur Rosenbaum en état de légitime défense ou s'il l'a abattu froidement (ou accidentellement) : en France, si tu vois un type commettre un crime, tu es en droit de l'arrêter toi-même (article 73 du CPP). En fait, la loi française permet à n'importe quel citoyen d'arrêter un individu en cas de crime ou délit passible d'une peine d'emprisonnement (évidemment, il est sans doute plus sage de se contenter d'appeler la police dans la plupart des cas).

 

J'imagine qu'aux États-Unis ça doit être à peu près pareil. Cependant, sur la vidéo, les deux « victimes » ne se comportent pas vraiment comme de bons citoyens épris de justice mais donnent plutôt l'impression de vouloir le lyncher (d'ailleurs le type qui s'est pris une balle dans le bras aurait déclaré regretter de n'avoir pu lui faire la peau). D'autre part, Kyle fuyait en direction de la police... Donc, s'ils comptaient vraiment l'arrêter, ils n'avaient simplement qu'à prévenir les policiers qui se trouvaient non loin.

 

En revanche, concernant le port d'arme, il risque certainement des poursuites à cause de son âge :

 

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Under Wisconsin statutes that say anyone under 18 who "goes armed" with any deadly weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor, Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, was not old enough to legally carry the assault-style rifle he had.

 

Source : https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2020/08/26/wisconsin-open-carry-law-kyle-rittenhouse-legally-have-gun-kenosha-protest-shooting-17-year-old/3444231001/

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[Frenhofer]

 

[Cthulhu]

  Le 29/08/2020 à 10:03, Bézoukhov a dit :

J'avais cru comprendre que la légitime défense était évidente depuis le début et que la question est "pourquoi il se trouvait là avec une arme".

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Certains commentaires sur Reddit laissaient entendre que sa mère l'aurait conduit à Kenosha. Ça me semble un peu WTF, mais au point où on est.

 

J'ai évité de lire les MSM sur le sujet et me suis contenté des subreddits libertariens + Facebook. Les deux camps ont des bons points sur la situation, mais ça tourne au dialogue de sourds comme d'habitude.

[Bézoukhov]

J'avais croisé une infographie rigolote sur Twitter qui montrait comment les narratives avaient diverge à partir de la même base de faits et d'omissions choisies.

 

Je trouve plus.

[Freezbee]

 

[Wayto]

La lecture de Colion Noir (avocat et activiste 2A) sur le sujet :

 

Au vu de son analyse de l'époque sur l'affaire Ahmaud Arbery, je n'ai pas de mal à lui faire confiance.

[poney]

2a?

 

Ce genre d'event montre encore une fois que les gauchistes et les droitards sont fait de la même soupe de connerie ambiancmte et qu'il n'y a pas un pour rattraper l'autre.