Le cash interdit

[fryer]

La disparition de la monnaie fiduciaire pourrait faire émerger une nouvelle monnaie, elle, palpable et non régulée. Non ?

[h16]

La disparition de la monnaie fiduciaire pourrait faire émerger une nouvelle monnaie, elle, palpable et non régulée. Non ?

 

Oui. Ou bitcoin.

[Tramp]

Sans effondrement économique ? Ce serait la première fois.

[Neomatix]

J'ai pas encore vu de discussion la dessus alors j'ouvre un thread sur le sujet pour avoir vos avis; intox, bluff,  ou  menace horrible ?

Selon vous il se passera quoi et comment?

 

Perso ca me parait etre un projet sexy pour un politique taxeur mais inapplicable dans un futur proche.

Discuss.

Topic existant

 

Sans effondrement économique ? Ce serait la première fois.

Il suffirait de monter le taux de réserves fractionnaires au niveau de la préférence des agents pour le cash (~15%) et zou, aucun souci.

[Tramp]

LoL. On se demande ce qui empêche l'économie planifiée de marché si l'économie est si facile à diriger.

[Neomatix]

LoL. On se demande ce qui empêche l'économie planifiée de marché si l'économie est si facile à diriger.

La monnaie est relativement facile à diriger (Volcker a bien réussi à contrôler l'inflation), pas l'économie.

 

Qu'est-ce qui empêcherait un système sans cash de fonctionner selon toi ?

[Tramp]

Qu'est-ce qui empêcherait un système monétaire dépourvu de monnaie de fonctionner ? La réponse est dans la question. C'est un peu comme un circuit électrique sans électricité.

L'inflation c'est tellement facile à contrôler qu'on est autour de 2% au Japon, dans la zone euro et aux USA.

[Poil à gratter]

Je serais assez curieux de voir ça en allemagne où les terminaux de paiement par carte de crédit sont peu répandus et les commerçants adorent le cash.

[Neomatix]

Qu'est-ce qui empêcherait un système monétaire dépourvu de monnaie de fonctionner ? La réponse est dans la question. C'est un peu comme un circuit électrique sans électricité.

Dépourvu de monnaie papier, de cash. La monnaie dématérialisée resterait.

L'inflation c'est tellement facile à contrôler qu'on est autour de 2% au Japon, dans la zone euro et aux USA.

La monnaie n'est qu'un côté de l'inflation, l'autre est conduit par l'économie.

[Tramp]

Il n'y a pas de monnaie dématérialisée, ce ne sont que des substituts monétaires.

Le contrôle de l'inflation à des niveaux bas de Volcker - et de l'inflation en général - consiste à ne rien faire. C'est l'opposé donc de la planification. Volcker est en soi une preuve que le système monétaire ne se contrôle pas. Le mieux est de ne rien faire.

[NoName]

La monnaie est relativement facile à diriger (Volcker a bien réussi à contrôler l'inflation), pas l'économie.

 

Qu'est-ce qui empêcherait un système sans cash de fonctionner selon toi ?

complètement inadapté à une utilisation quotidienne basique

 

un achat entre particuliers à faible coût ? une brocante ? une panne d'électricité ? impossible de commercer. dès lors la question se pose même pas: il y aura une alternative (en fait il y'en aura pleins). La question c'est: à quelle échelle elle seront adoptées.

si le gouvernement supprime le cash, autre chose apparaîtra. Monnaies marchandise (tabac, beuh, carte de téléphone prépayées), ou des systèmes à tiers de confiance, et on verra réapparaître ex-nihilo les bonnes vieilles lettre de change qui ont permis le commerce international à l'époque moderne 

[Neomatix]

un achat entre particuliers à faible coût ? une brocante ? une panne d'électricité ? impossible de commercer. dès lors la question se pose même pas: il y aura une alternative (en fait il y'en aura pleins). La question c'est: à quelle échelle elle seront adoptées.

Le retour du carnet de chèques, franchouillerie encore très en vogue qui permet de surmonter sans mal ces problèmes.

[Tramp]

Les étrangers auront sûrement envie de se faire payer comme ca, en 1 et 0 plutot qu'en euros.

[NoName]

Le retour du carnet de chèques, franchouillerie encore très en vogue qui permet de surmonter sans mal ces problèmes.

les dealers vont se payer en chèques

 

[Neomatix]

les dealers vont se payer en chèques

 

Ils se paieront en lettres de change ?

 

Les étrangers auront sûrement envie de se faire payer comme ca, en 1 et 0 plutot qu'en euros.

Avoir confiance en des morceaux de papier n'est pas moins irrationnel que d'avoir confiance en du binaire.

[Tramp]

Malgré sa grande facilité à être reproduit, le papier est économiquement rare pas le binaire.

[Neomatix]

Si la monnaie n'était limitée que par la capacité d'impression de billets en papier, ça ferait longtemps qu'on aurait croulé sous l'hyperinflation.

[Tramp]

L'autre limite c'est que les banquiers centraux et un certains nombres d'hommes politiques ont compris que c'était du poison et on ajouté quelques sûretées. Et l'économie a appris à un peu s'en protéger.

Je ne vois pas ce qui empêcheraient les banques commerciales de faire ce qu'elles voudraient si c'est elles qui émettent la monnaie qu'on ne peut légalement refuser.

[Neomatix]

Je ne vois pas ce qui empêcheraient les banques commerciales de faire ce qu'elles voudraient si c'est elles qui émettent la monnaie qu'on ne peut légalement refuser.

Le risque de défaut de leur créancier ?

La somme des disponibilités reste exactement la même dans tous les cas, en créer s'appelle du faux-monnayage.

[NoName]

Ils se paieront en lettres de change ?

 

en herbe, tabac, munition, essence et qui sait, peut être même en crédit PS-store ou je ne sais quoi dans le même délire

[Tramp]

Une banque peut créer des substituts monétaires ex-nihilo sans limite déjà dans certains cas.

[Neomatix]

substituts monétaires ex-nihilo

Dotés not compute, on appelle ça de la fraude.

[h16]

L'autre limite c'est que les banquiers centraux et un certains nombres d'hommes politiques ont compris que c'était du poison et on ajouté quelques sûretées. Et l'économie a appris à un peu s'en protéger.

dans quel monde vis-tu ?

[h16]

L'inflation c'est tellement facile à contrôler qu'on est autour de 2% au Japon, dans la zone euro et aux USA.

je supposerais charitablement que c'est ironique parce qu'actuellement, l'inflation € est <0, <1.5% USA et <0 Japon. Et ça panique à coup de QE. Bref, c'est complètement incontrôlable.

[Tramp]

[Hugh]

Salut.

 

Deux articles en anglais:

 

https://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/are-you-safe-from-the-war-on-cash

 

 

Governments are waging a war on cash...

 

Although you won’t hear it in the mainstream media, many world governments want to eliminate paper cash. Governments hate paper cash because it’s hard to track. Electronic payments through banks are much easier to monitor and record.

Nick Giambruno, editor of Crisis Speculator, has been following this trend closely.

The War on Cash is a favorite pet project of the economic central planners. They want to eliminate hand-to-hand currency so that governments can document, control, and tax everything. In just the last few years…

• Italy made cash transactions over €1,000 illegal;

• Switzerland proposed banning cash payments in excess of 100,000 francs;

• Russia banned cash transactions over $10,000;

• Spain banned cash transactions over €2,500;

• Mexico made cash payments of more than 200,000 pesos illegal;

• Uruguay banned cash transactions over $5,000; and

• France made cash transactions over €1,000 illegal, down from the previous limit of €3,000.

Nick went on to explain that the U.S. government imposes restrictions on withdrawing your own cash from the bank.

In the U.S., central planners ratchet up the War on Cash every time the government declares a made-up war on something else…a war on crime, a war on drugs, a war on poverty, a war on terror…

They all end with more government intrusion into your financial affairs.

Thanks to these made-up wars, the U.S. government is imposing an increasing number of regulations on cash transactions. Try withdrawing more than $10,000 in cash from your bank. They’ll treat you like a criminal or terrorist.

 

•  We just got the clearest sign yet that paper cash is disappearing…

 

The world’s largest printer of banknotes (paper currency) is cutting production and firing employees.

Yesterday, De La Rue (LON: DLAR) announced it will cut its banknote production capacity by 25%. The company is closing half of its production lines and eliminating 300 jobs.

De La Rue prints more banknotes than any other company in the world. It produces banknotes for over 150 national currencies, including the British pound sterling. Its stock price is down 20% since mid-April.

The company’s CEO said the decision was made to keep the company “in line with the future needs of our global customers.”

De La Rue may also sell its cash-sorting machine business for similar reasons.

 

•  If, like us, you’re concerned about governments’ War on Cash…

 

We suggest owning a significant amount of physical gold and silver. People across the world consider gold and silver money. They have for thousands of years. If your government eliminates paper currency, you won’t be able to store wealth by keeping cash at home or in a vault. You’ll have to store all your cash in digital form, at a bank, or another financial institution.

With gold and silver, you can store a portion of your wealth at home or in a vault, outside the banking system. And, unlike cash in a bank, reckless government printing and spending can’t destroy the value of gold and silver.

 

https://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/will-you-get-your-money-out-in-time

 

 

The “bank account tax” is coming.

If you’ve been a Casey reader for long, you know the U.S. government has engaged in a long list of reckless acts since the 2008 financial crisis.

It has created trillions of dollars from thin air…it has borrowed trillions more…and it’s held interest rates at effectively zero for seven years.

Supposedly, these extreme actions were for our own good. Bureaucrats insisted that these policies would restore economic growth. Other world governments followed the U.S.' lead, flooding the world with easy money.

These policies have been a miserable failure. The U.S. economy, the world’s largest, is growing at its slowest pace since World War II. China, the world’s second-largest economy, is growing at its slowest pace since 1990. Japan’s economy, the third-largest, hasn’t grown at all in 20 years.

Easy money policies did succeed at one thing. They sent asset prices soaring. Prices for stocks, bonds, commercial property, and fine art have all surged to record highs. Asset prices are now completely detached from the “real world” economy. We’re now in an “Alice in Wonderland” economy.

 

• Negative interest rates are the latest government scheme…

 

As we’ve explained, many of the world’s largest economies use negative rates.

Europe introduced them almost two years ago. Japan started using them in January. Denmark, Sweden, and Switzerland also have negative rates. According to Business Insider, more than 27% of the world’s government bonds already have negative rates.

The whole point of lending money is to earn interest. With negative rates, the lender pays the borrower.

Negative rates wouldn’t exist in a free market economy. They’re a perversion of capitalism. And the United States could be next. In November, Federal Reserve chair Janet Yellen said negative rates were “on the table” if the U.S. economy runs into trouble.

 

• Yesterday, Japan’s government sold a 10-year bond with negative yield for the first time…

 

Owners of these bonds must pay the Japanese government 0.024% a year.

Think about that. Japan is the most indebted country on the planet. Its debt-to-GDP ratio is 228%. That’s more than double the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio of 101% (which is its highest since World War II.) Why would anyone pay to loan money to Japan’s government?

 

• Negative rates are a tool to get people to spend more…

 

Governments think if they penalize you for saving money, you’ll spend it instead. So, in theory, negative rates stimulate the economy.

As Doug Casey explains, this is a dangerous myth.

It’s part of the Keynesian view, in which spending and consumption drive the economy. This isn’t just wrong, it’s the exact opposite of what’s true. It’s production and saving that drive an economy. You have to save to build capital, and capital is necessary for…everything. What these people are doing is destructive of civilization itself. And when we go into the next crisis, governments will use the disastrous results of their own policies as excuses to enact even more destructive versions of the same things.

And like all government policies, negative interest rates will have side effects. Once banks start charging interest on savings accounts, people will pull their cash out. But there’s one big problem…

 

• There’s not enough paper currency...

 

Americans have about 11.1 trillion “digital” dollars in their checking and savings accounts. But there’s only about $1.35 trillion worth of “paper” bills in circulation, according to Zero Hedge. In other words, there’s only one “paper” dollar for every eight “digital” dollars in the United States.

If everyone tried to pull out their money, banks would quickly run out of cash.

 

• Governments are herding people into the digital financial system…

 

As we’ve explained, governments are working to eliminate paper cash. This way, people can’t pull cash out of the bank. You’ll have no defense against governments taxing your bank account via negative interest rates. You’ll be trapped in the digital financial system, defenseless against “digital confiscation.”

World governments are already taking steps to eliminate paper cash. Italy and France recently banned cash transactions over 1,000 euros. Spain has banned transactions over 2,500 euros. Uruguay banned cash transactions over $5,000.

In the U.S., try to withdraw more than $10,000 of your own money. Your bank will interrogate you, treat you like a criminal, or flat-out deny you.

 

• The $100 bill is under attack…

 

Last Friday, we explained how the government and its media lapdogs have stepped up their attack on cash. Just last month, Larry Summers, a former U.S. Treasury Secretary, called for the government to pull the $100 bill out of circulation.

According to the government, using big bills makes you a drug dealer or a terrorist. Get rid of large bills, there will be less crime.

This is propaganda. The government is using it to distract you from the real motive.

 

• We recommend moving money outside the digital financial system…

 

Hold enough paper cash to cover six months’ worth of living expenses. Store the cash in a safe or public storage unit. You could even bury it in a waterproof container in your backyard.

This may sound extreme. But when Americans realize that there’s not enough cash to go around, there will likely be a “rush to the exits.” People will hoard cash. The key is to get a significant amount of your cash out of the bank before that happens.

 

• We also recommend owning gold…

 

Gold is money. It’s held its value for thousands of years. Governments can’t create more gold from thin air, like they can with paper currencies. As Americans wake up and realize their bank accounts aren’t safe, many folks will likely transfer some of their wealth to gold.

If you only do one thing to protect yourself, own physical gold. Its value could double…triple…or even quadruple in the coming years

 

[Hugh]

Salut.

 

Nick Giambruno (International Man) interview Doug Casey (Casey Research)

 

 

Louis James: There have been a lot of government moves recently, making it harder for people to do business in cash. What do you think, are the days of anonymous paper money numbered?

 

Doug Casey: It’s funny. First, there was a war on gold. Now, there is definitely a war on cash. It was inevitable. It’s part of a long-standing trend toward more state control of people’s finances. In modern times, this started back in 1970 with the so-called Bank Secrecy Act, which required U.S. persons to report the existence of any foreign bank or brokerage accounts. Of course, in those days, bank secrecy still existed, so many Americans simply violated the law.

That was followed by the Money Laundering Control Act of 1986. “Money laundering” is an artificial, arbitrary, made-up crime. This law opened the door to everyone having to explain where their money came from. In a free society, the only crimes considered real are those that involve aggression against another person or his property.

 

L: Actual harm.

 

Doug: Right. But the average person today has been programmed to think it’s a crime to move money around. Anyway, the screws were further tightened with the Orwellian “Patriot Act” in 2001, which torqued both of these measures up.

But things started getting really serious with the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act of 2010 (FATCA). That made it mandatory, in effect, for all foreign financial institutions to report Americans who have bank or brokerage accounts. Of course, OECD countries and others had to jump on the bandwagon, making FATCA a global phenomenon.

In several countries, they’ve passed laws outlawing cash transactions above X dollars. It’s €1,000 in France. It’s $5,000 in Uruguay, which used to be the Switzerland of South America. In other countries, including Sweden, Norway, Denmark, India, and Israel, there have been calls to ban cash entirely. Just try withdrawing a large amount of cash from a U.S. or Canadian bank these days. You’re in for an unpleasant experience.

 

L: And it’s not just governments.

 

Doug: Large corporations, too. They are all members of the Deep State; they work hand-in-glove with the government. They dislike cash for their own reasons—mainly convenience, and to prevent theft and pilfering by employees. Many large companies have started banning the use of cash. Airlines are one example; they won’t take cash for drinks or meals on board anymore. Chase recently banned the use of cash for certain transactions.

 

L: But governments invented paper money and passed laws forcing people to use it instead of gold and silver. Why would they want to abolish it now?

 

Doug: If you can’t use cash, everything has to go through the banking system. Everything that goes through the banking system, of course, is extremely easy for the state to track.

The rationale they will use is obvious; it will supposedly make it impossible for drug cartels, terrorist organizations and other real or imagined bad guys to “launder” their “dirty” money. Of course, abolishing the use of cash will also make tax collection easier. It enables them to track everything you buy and sell, and, effectively, everything you own.

 

L: Though they’ll say it will be more “fair” because everyone will finally be forced to pay their full share.

 

Doug: I’m reminded of a ridiculous Bloomberg article I read the other day, saying that cash was a physically dirty, expensive, potentially criminal, and obsolete 19th-century technology. It’s a full court press attack against cash. Statists have always hated the idea of money in general, actually. Money represents freedom for the individual. It gives you the independence to be, do, and have what you want, without asking anyone’s permission. That’s why money shouldn’t have anything to do with the State.

 

L: All bricks in the wall. But aside from destroying financial privacy, why is this a problem? I mean, if I’m not a criminal, why should I care about hiding my finances?

 

Doug: If they succeed, and all your money has to be in banks or some part of the financial system governments have complete access to, they can freeze your accounts—all your activity. You’re completely under their control. So be a good little lamb.

Once again, it’s not just a matter of financial privacy. The average chimpanzee no longer really cares about that, or privacy, in general. They post everything about themselves on Facebook. They disclose everything to the IRS or their bank. Privacy is a dead concept. And that’s a cause for real pessimism. There was zero privacy in tribal times, nor much in any time until the modern era. I don’t like the idea of reverting to a primitive era. Privacy is a major way the individual can protect himself from the mob. Privacy in all regards, not just financial, is actually critical to civilization itself.

 

L: But there’s a bigger picture here…

 

Doug: Yes. Pushing people out of cash, combined with the zero interest rate policy (so-called ZIRP) and the money-printing that’s called “quantitative easing” (QE) today, has created a huge bond super bubble, plus stock and property bubbles. That also makes this a war on savers. In the EU, Japan, and several other countries, putting money in the bank guarantees a loss.

But the real issue is that the State everywhere wants to be able to control all economic and financial activity. All of it.

 

L: Making it all the more dangerous when they mismanage these things.

 

Doug: Exactly. Because you don’t get the best and brightest people going to work for government. You get the most rapacious and morally flawed. People who want to control other people.

Once the average citizen believes the State should be somehow responsible for economic stability and prosperity—a crazy notion, since the State is the cause of most instability and is the enemy of prosperity—anything can happen. The individual, even millions of them, can be sacrificed to some fictional common good. Which really means the good of the State and the major corporations around it.

One recent example is the infamous “bail in” that happened in Cyprus. Anyone who had more than €100,000 in a Cypriot bank had most of it confiscated in 2013. This blatant theft is being discussed as a policy option around the world in case of crisis, as though it were a normal thing.

In my mind, all of this is clear evidence that the global financial system is on the edge of collapse. But this isn’t an economic or financial issue nearly so much as a freedom issue.

 

L: When might that collapse happen?

 

Doug: I’ve said it before, but this is worth repeating many times, because people don’t take it as seriously as they should. We entered a gigantic financial hurricane in 2007. We’ve been in the eye of the hurricane since 2010. It’s a large eye, yes, but that’s in proportion to the huge size of the hurricane. I admit: I’ve been early on this, since the degree of what governments have been doing—with ZIRP, QE, and now the War Against Cash, is unprecedented. But we’re exiting the eye of the storm and going into its trailing edge. The global economy will be engulfed in the trailing edge of the storm before this year is over. There are many indications that this is starting right now, as we speak. And the second half of the storm is going to be much worse, much different, and last much longer than what we saw in 2008 and 2009.

 

L: Which was no picnic. But how can you be sure? Is there no way around the storm?

 

Doug: I don’t see one. I think they’ve already pulled out all the stops. I mean, I thought it was metaphysically impossible to have negative interest rates. I didn’t think anyone could be that stupid. But here we are with negative interest rates spreading around the world.

 

L: Your war on savers.

 

Doug: It’s part of the Keynesian view, in which spending and consumption drive the economy. This isn’t just wrong, it’s the exact opposite of what’s true. It’s production and saving that drive an economy. You have to save to build capital, and capital is necessary for… everything. What these people are doing is destructive of civilization itself. And when we go into the next crisis, governments will use the disastrous results of their own policies as excuses to enact even more destructive versions of the same things. As the sociopathic mayor of Chicago said, they never want to let a serious crisis go to waste. These people really believe that they should have more, perhaps even unlimited, power.

 

We are truly on the edge of a precipice.

 

[Hugh]

Pardon.

 

Le lien:

 

http://www.internationalman.com/articles/doug-casey-and-the-war-on-cash-we-are-truly-on-the-edge-of-a-precipice

[Hugh]

http://or-argent.eu/chaos-en-inde-alors-que-le-gouvernement-retire-de-la-ciruclation-les-2-plus-grosses-coupures-quasi-sans-preavis/

 

"Chaos en Inde : le gouvernement retire de la circulation les 2 plus grosses coupures quasiment sans préavis"

 

 

Les billets de 500 et de 1000 roupies (6,75 et 13,5 € !!!) n’auront plus cours légal à partir de mercredi, a déclaré Modi, à l’occasion d’une annonce non planifiée faite à la nation. L’or étant habituellement acheté avec de l’argent liquide en Inde, cette annonce a provoqué une véritable frénésie parmi les personnes souhaitant convertir leurs économies de cash en or.

 

[Nigel]

Lol, la violence du truc. 

 

 Vous connaissez le jeu de la patate chaude ?